by Simon 254 Replies latest forum announcements
Do you have an 18 year old child?
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To a parent - their child is a child no matter the age.
To a stranger - an 18 year old man is just a man.
Both MB and Wilson are strangers to me. MB was 18 years old, 6'4 and 300 pounds. He was a very large man. sw
In any other context calling an African-American man "boy" will probably put you on the receiving end of some thuggish behavior.
There have been court cases over the use of 'boy' when referencing african american men with some suggesting it's racist and close to using the n word.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/johnson/2010/11/racist_language
https://www.schr.org/action/resources/term_boy_is_proof_of_racial_animus
No matter what race, an 18 year old is a young man, a lad, a boy. There is an axiomatic differrence between calling a black man boy with the intention to offend him and refering to a young man as an 18 year old boy. He is not old enough to buy alcohol and soon in some states tobacco. Male or female in most places an 18 year old is considered an adult. Even some 15 year old males are 6 feet tall and weigh many pound too, however, that does not make them legal age. In many states a person is entitled to "child" support, if he lives at home, until age 21. According to laws, children can be tried as adults but that does not make them legal age either. According to the law, anyone before reaching their 18th birthday (in many places) is a child. One day later he is a grown man? No, at the age of 18 a person is considered legal age or "the "age of majority". Only several months before MB was killled, he was a child. A couple of months later, they killed a grown man.
There is no reason for killing him because of his alleged past criminal history. Calling him a thug is no reason to kill him either as if he deserved to get killed because he was a thug. In all fairness to the officer, the defense side of the story must be heard.
I know and understand the reasons that a jury is often not informed of previous crimes, it protects against the "hey, he must be guilty because he's been guilty before!" type thinking and of course stealing something should not warrant a death sentence but no one is claimintg that as far as I can tell.
However, the state of mind, attitude and behavior just prior to the incident does have a bearing on the case so it can't be discounted entirely.
As for whether someone is a man or boy - I think the issue people have is not so much the legal definition but the attempt to portray him as a sweet innocent minor. When you get cases where the publicity shot is some 12 year old and people are using language like "child" or "boy" then it's obviously done to garner public sympathy and distort opinion somewhat, just the same as other calling someone a thug.
What someone can and can't do at different ages in different states is really irrelevant - unless there were some medical / psychological reason to treat someone as a minor then an 18 year old is classed as an adult for legal reasons. Yes, someon people are more or less mature than others and bigger or smaller. That doesn't really alter the fact that he is not a 'boy' anymore legally.
An 18 year old being a boy or a man depends on the news baiting agenda and angle.
Here is what I've observed.......
IMAGINE this 18 year old is the same person, here is how they will be described in all of these different scenarios
- any sort of white killing black and the black is 18 it's a 'boy' or 'child'.
- If an 18 year old(any race even though pretending all same person) is accused of something sexual against a 16 or 14 year old, then that 18 year old is a 'GROWN man'.
- If a 24 year old teacher has concentual sex with this 18 year old who is still in school, etc, but they are still 18 and legal age of consent, this 18 year old is a 'victim' a 'child' and the 24 year old is a perv. No matter which side is m/f,etc.
Let's pretend this 18 year old is now 16 or 17,
This 16 year old murders, or rapes, or robs somebody, they are a 'grown adult'.
A 20 year old has consentual sex with this 16 year old, they are a 'victim', a 'child'.
So here is the pattern, if it's a crime against them and they are 18, they are a 'child'. If they are the guilty one, they are a 'grown adult'.
The ONLY exception is if it is a white on black/black on white case, then the black person could be guilty of crimes, but they are still a child. (like the one who robbed the store, etc)
No matter what race, an 18 year old is a young man, a lad, a boy
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Legally in the State of Missouri - an 18 year old is a man. Not a boy. Not a lad. a man. Michael Brown was a man - a very large man. That man committed a crime just moments before his interaction with the police. He was on video stealing from a store and assaulting someone in the store. That man had a physical altercation with a police officer just seconds before his death. When speaking of possibilites as to what a person was thinking prior to the incident or intent - equal consideration must be given, not just to the cop - but to the heightened aggression, state of mind and physical state that the criminal might have been in. Having been confrontational just minutes before the incident, how confrontational was the criminal acting just minutes after? These are answers that one assumes have been discussed and will be deciding factors in the results. sw
In America its the 0.26 oz. solution. We lead the developed countries in all sorts of shootings, police shootings as well as other shooting homicides.
Maybe we need to ask why.
According to the media, an alleged call was made to the police reporting that MB stole some items using force just prior to him being shot 6 or 7 times resulting in his death. The defense has not clearly disclosed if the officer that killed MB had knowledge of the report. To my knowledge the defense has not disclosed if the officer identified MB as the suspect in that incident prior to approaching him or during the encounter.
Since, it has not been legally established that MB did in fact commit the related crime, his "frame of mind" in connection with the alleged report cannot be legally determined either. Since it cannot be legally established that MB commited a crime prior to his encounter with the police, his frame of mind in connection with that alleged crime cannot be used to justify the police killing him.
A teenager is a youth, age 13-19. An 18 year old pays high car insurance rates, he is not allowed to buy alcohol and other restrictions because of his age. That is relevant because you are dealing with a teenager, of course he is not a child and of course he is of age and legally reponsible for his actions, but nervertheless, he is dealt with as an 18 year old. There is nothing misleading about refering to him as an 18 year old boy. If they had said they killed a teenager or a boy, that would only be part of the picture. Saying that he is an 18 year old boy does not imply that he is an innocent child either. That is reading too much into the word boy and not seeing 18year old. Regarding weight and size of any person does make such person legal age or child. It is releveant to consider that minors under the age of 18 and a child under the age of 15 can be tried as adults, even 4 feet 11, 90 lb 'infants"can be tried as adults, but that does not mean that they are not children. An 18 year old regardless of him being of legal age, is a teenager, a young man, a boy.
The defintion of boy is young man. One day prior to age 18 is not the limit of the defenition. There is no legal definition for the term boy. The law uses the term minor to refer to someone under the age of 18 and child as someone 14 years of age and under in most states. Sometimes the term boy child is used legally to refer to male 14 or under. The term infant is used legally to describe someone uder the age of 18, a minor. In England, "Common law" held that an infant was someone under the age of 21, but now mostly under 18. There is nothing legally wrong or misleading in refering to MB as an 18 year old boy.
The defense has not clearly disclosed if the officer that killed MB had knowledge of the report.
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The call that this officer took regarding the theft was made public - it is quite clear he had knowledge of the crime prior to the incident. Not sure what more 'disclosure' you want to confirm the officer was on the job and heard the report.
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At 11:29 a.m. on Aug. 9, a dispatcher asked Wilson to help other officers search for a man who had reportedly threatened to kill a woman. At 11:47 a.m., Wilson said he would respond to a call for a 2-month-old with breathing problems. Wilson drove his police SUV from the west side of West Florissant Avenue to Glenark Drive, east of Canfield Drive and Copper Creek Court, where the fatal encounter would soon occur.
At 11:53 a.m., a dispatcher reported a “stealing in progress” at the Ferguson Market. The 911 operator was still talking to the caller in the background. In a second broadcast, 19 seconds later, the dispatcher says the suspect is a black male in a white T-shirt running toward QuikTrip, and had stolen a box of Swisher cigars.
About four minutes later, there’s more detail: the suspect is wearing a red Cardinals hat, a white T-shirt, yellow socks and khaki shorts, and is accompanied by another man.
At noon, Wilson reports that he’s back in service from the sick-baby call. He then asks the officers searching for the thieves – units 25 and 22 – if they need him. Seven seconds later, an unidentified officer broadcasts that the suspects had disappeared.
At 12:02 p.m., Wilson says, “21. Put me on Canfield with two. And send me another car.” His call triggered at least two officers to head his way, including one who said he was close to Wilson.
an alleged call was made to the police reporting that MB stole some items using force
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Alleged? A 911 call was made - see police records/dispatch records including additional 4 minute timeframe in which more detail on the appearance of the person committing the crime was given. Video of the crime has also been collected.
"At 11:53 a.m., a dispatcher reported a “stealing in progress” at the Ferguson Market. The 911 operator was still talking to the caller in the background. In a second broadcast, 19 seconds later, the dispatcher says the suspect is a black male in a white T-shirt running toward QuikTrip, and had stolen a box of Swisher cigars.
About four minutes later, there’s more detail: the suspect is wearing a red Cardinals hat, a white T-shirt, yellow socks and khaki shorts, and is accompanied by another man."
