FDS & G.B. TEACHING DESTROYED

by The Searcher 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  The Searcher

  Credit to VIDQUN for the direction given.

  The Watchtower November 15th QFR http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20141115/ blows the selection process/timing/individuals clean out of the water!

  Simply put, ask ANY Witness these questions:

  Who is represented by the 'two witnesses' in Revelation chapter 7? Answer = J.F. Rutherford & Co.

  Who kills the 'two witnesses' and when? Answer = The beast which ascends out of the abyss, in 1919.

  However, as every Witness should know, the beast which ascends out of the abyss (Revelation 11:7; 17:8) is none other than the United Nations, which only came into existence 26 years afterthe 'two slaves' were allegedly put to death, revived, and then chosen by God & Christ as the Faithful & Discreet Slave!

  Is someone on the Writing Committee in self-destruct mode?

  wt14 11/15 p. 30 - Who are the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation chapter 11?

  "......the account refers to God’s anointed ones who took the lead during a difficult time of testing. So in the fulfillment of Revelation chapter 11,the anointed brothers who took the lead at the time of the establishment of God’s Kingdom in heaven in 1914 preached "in sackcloth" for three and a half years. At the end of their preaching in sackcloth, these anointed ones were symbolically killed when they were thrown into prison for a comparatively shorter period of time, a symbolic three and a half days. However, true to the words of the prophecy, at the end of the three and a half days, the two witnesses were brought back to life. Not only were these anointed ones released from prison but those who remained faithful received a special appointment from God through their Lord, Jesus Christ. In 1919 they were among those who were appointed to serve as a "faithful and discreet slave" [and Governing Body] to care for the spiritual needs of God’s people during the last days."—Matt. 24:45-47; Rev. 11:11,12.

  w13 7/15 pp. 22-23 par. 12 "Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?"

  "When did Jesus appoint the faithful slave [Governing Body] over his domestics? To answer that, we need to go back to 1914, the beginning of the harvest season. From which group would Jesus select and appoint the faithful slave? That question was answered after he and his Father came and inspected the temple, or spiritual arrangement for worship, from 1914 to the early part of 1919. Those faithful Bible Students were true Christian wheat. In 1919, a time of spiritual revival, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers from among them to be the faithful and discreet slave [and Governing Body] and appointed them over his domestics. The two current articles quoted above (and many others before them) inform us who the "faithful & discreet slave" of Matthew 24:45 was, and when it was chosen, based solely on the given interpretation of a prophecy in Revelation chapter 11 concerning 'two witnesses'. That interpretation identifies the jailed/released J.F. Rutherford and several of his companions as the 'two witnesses', which resulted in them being selected as the faithful & discreet slave by God and Christ in 1919. Thus, the prophecy of Revelation chapter 11 was fulfilled in those men."

  The prophecy states that the 'two witnesses' were killed, so the Watchtower November 15 2014 explained that "these anointed ones were symbolically killed" by their imprisonment which lasted for about 9 months. When all of the above is compared with the Biblical account, the interpretation - and by extension, everything connected with it - collapses. It is a house built on sand!

  This is what the Bible says: Revelation 11:3-7 - "I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth." These are symbolized by the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth. If anyone wants to harm them, fire comes out of their mouths and consumes their enemies. If anyone should want to harm them, this is how he must be killed. These have the authority to shut up the sky so that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have authority over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every sort of plague as often as they wish. When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them."

  Revelation 11:7 tells us that it is "the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss" which kills the 'two witnesses'.

  Revelation 17:8 gives us more information about this beast by describing it as "the wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss...."

  Revelation 17:8 is interpreted as representing the League of Nations, followed by the rise of the United Nations. (Revelation Book chap. 34 pp. 247-248)

  The League of Nations came into existence in 1920, and the United Nations in 1945.

  If J.F. Rutherford and the others were the 'two slaves' put to death in 1918-1919, then it couldn't have been the League of Nations beast which killed them, because it didn't exist in 1919.

  Even if it did exist in 1919, the Bible tells us that it is the beast which ascends out of the abyss which kills the 'two witnesses, namely, the United Nations! (according to interpretation)

  And since we know that the U.N. only came into existence in 1945 - twenty six years after 1919 - it becomes patently obvious that the fulfillment of the 'two witnesses' prophecy has not yet taken place. To compound matters, Rutherford and company were in prison ("dead") for only nine months.

  In the prophecy, the 'two witnesses were dead for three and a half days, or three and a half years if using the day-for-a-year reckoning.

  Since the foundation is built on sand, everything supported by it disintegrates.
• 

  TheOldHippie

  I was under the impression that the beast of ch. 11 is Satan's worldwide political system - and that is the one which kills the two wotnesses - whereas the beast of ch. 17 is the image of the beast, i.e. UN. I've got to check it out.
• 

  The Searcher

  There has to be a 'new light' on Rev. 11 & 17 to explain that these beasts which ascend out of the abyss are different beasts now!

  Sorry, that won't wash either. The Brothers Grim fairy tales get wilder each time they open their mouths!
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  prologos

  I could be totally wrong here, but I was stunned at one article that I (mis)read perhaps, where the beast that has its head-wound healed was the Anglo-American world power? rather then other entities, the holy german empire, the---

  Biblical fauna never held my interest longer than one meeting at a time.

  Searcher, keep at it. You can not fail.
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  Vidiot

  The Searcher - "Is someone on the Writing Committee in self-destruct mode?"

  No.

  Since Fred Franz died without any kind of protege, there's been no real WT "oracle" to craft its eschatology, so they're still stuck with his Cold-War-era End-Times script.

  Trying to adapt it to the 21st century, however, has made it so convoluted over time that it's become damn near impossible to keep track of what fits where anymore.
• 

  Listener

  The teaching is that the Wild Beast of Rev 11:7 is the world organization of politics and that it is the same beast mentioned at Rev 13:1

  The crazy thing is that the prominent JWs were imprisoned by the American legal system, not by any worldly collaborating system.

  Insight Vol 2 'sea'

  The Abyss. According to Parkhurst’s Greek and English Lexicon to the New Testament (London, 1845, p. 2), the Greek word a ′ bys·sos, meaning “very or exceedingly deep” and often translated “abyss,” is sometimes used with reference to or in making a comparison to the sea because of the sea’s great, seemingly fathomless, depth. (Ro 10:6, 7; compare De 30:12, 13.) In the symbols of Revelation, “the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss” (Re 11:7) is said, at Revelation 13:1, to ascend out of “the sea.”

  Paradise Restored 3

  That wild beast out of the abyss is later shown to symbolize the world organization of politics now millenniums old. In the spring of the year 1918, before World War I was over, this beastly political organization took advantage of war conditions to ban literature on the Bible as used by the “two witnesses” class and imprisoned dedicated Christians who were foremost in publishing it. Thus the free public work of the symbolic “two witnesses” was killed

  Revelation Climax 25

  Revelation 11:7-10.

  20 This is the first of 37 references in Revelation to a wild beast. In due course we will examine this and other beasts in detail. Suffice it to say for now that “the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss” is of Satan’s design, a living political system of things.—Compare Revelation 13:1; Daniel 7:2, 3, 17.

  21 From 1914 to 1918 the nations were occupied with the first world war. Nationalistic feelings ran high, and in the spring of 1918, the religious enemies of the two witnesses took advantage of the situation. They maneuvered the State’s legal apparatus so that responsible ministers of the Bible Students were imprisoned on false charges of sedition. Faithful coworkers were stunned. Kingdom activity almost ceased. It was as though the preaching work were dead
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  EdenOne

  Marked
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  DATA-DOG

  They will spin and the dubs will eat it up. Remember, we are talking about people who desperately want to cheat death. They will believe ANYTHING which supports that desire.

  DD
• 

  sir82

  It's more likely that the writer of that QFR was just sloppy in his research. The WTS writers are notoriously lazy, and almost never check for consistency with previously published doctrine.

  For most things, they can get away with it, but when they attempt to delve into something "deeper", the inconsistencies pop up, as in this case.

  JWs are taught not to think, just to accept, so they never notice. They just assume that it must be consistent with past teaching.
• 

  Vidqun

  This is a typical example of the Society’s dishonest scholarship. The beast that “is destined to ascend out of the abyss” (Rev. 17:8) is the same beast “that ascends out of the abyss” (Rev. 11:7). [In Revelation the beasts are identified by their origin, e.g., the beast from the sea (Rev. 13:1), the beast from the earth (Rev. 13:11), etc.]

  The Society identifies the beast that “is destined to ascend out of the abyss” of Rev. 17:8 with the League of Nations and the United Nations (Revelation Climax -book, Chapter 34, p. 248).

  The scarlet-colored wild beast did indeed climb out of the abyss. On June 26, 1945, with noisy fanfare in San Francisco, U.S.A., 50 nations voted to accept the Charter of the United Nations organization. This body was “to maintain international peace and security.” There were many similarities between the League and the UN. TheWorldBookEncyclopedia notes: “In some ways, the UN resembles the League of Nations, which was organized after World War I . . . Many of the nations that founded the UN had also founded the League. Like the League, the UN was established to help keep peace between nations. The main organs of the UN are much like those of the League.” The UN, then, is actually a revival of the scarlet-colored wild beast. Its membership of some 190 nations far exceeds that of the League’s 63; it has also taken on broader responsibilities than its predecessor.

  However, at Rev. 11:7 the beast “ascending out of the abyss” is identified as the great political beast of Revelation 13:1 “ascending out of the sea” (Revelation Climax -book, Chapter 25, pp. 167, 168).

  From 1914 to 1918 the nations were occupied with the first world war. Nationalistic feelings ran high, and in the spring of 1918, the religious enemies of the two witnesses took advantage of the situation. They maneuvered the State’s legal apparatus so that responsible ministers of the Bible Students were imprisoned on false charges of sedition. Faithful coworkers were stunned. Kingdom activity almost ceased. It was as though the preaching work were dead.

  Notice now the footnote in the Revelation Climax-book (p. 167): The “abyss” (Greek, a′bys·sos; Hebrew, tehohm′) refers symbolically to a place of inactivity. (See Revelation 9:2.) In a literal sense, however, it can also refer to the vast sea. The Hebrew word is often translated “watery deep.” (Psalm 71:20; 106:9; Jonah 2:5) Thus, “the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss” can be identified with the “wild beast ascending out of the sea.”—Revelation 11:7; 13:1.

  Interestingly, the person(s) in the Writing Department, resposible for the Revelation Climax-book, did indeed notice the discrepancy. Why else the elaborate footnote? Question: Why on earth would they go to such lengths to bend the truth? Answer: To defend their 1914-1918 doctrine at all costs, even at the expense of honest scholarship and the truth.