I think the WT believed their own "growth" statements - Financial Trouble Thoughts

by thedepressedsoul 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • thedepressedsoul
    thedepressedsoul

    We've all read, heard and have seen in the videos where JW's and their leaders talk about the "huge" growth that is taking place. They've talked about how many KH they needed, branches etc...

    Our CO last visit he mentioned how quickly the organization is speeding up and the huge growth they are seeing.

    We however, know the truth about that. It's hardly seeing a 2% growth. People are leaving extremely fast and it seems to be more of the people with wealth that are leaving. Any growth is from born in's or undeveloped countries. There have been many articles people have written on that subject alone.

    I think they almost believed their own hype of growth. They started putting up KH like crazy, building branches all over, buying up properties and so on. They are now seeing first hand that this growth they have hyped up isn't actually there and have found themselves holding the financial bag.

    I also think within the last 6 months they have killed their own donations. The GB making themselves more prominent and in your face all the time has let people see their true colors. I also think their "branch meeting" killed a lot of donations. I don't know too many people, even hardcore witnesses that weren't offended by tight pants Tony's statements. They also have the child abuse cases. I know for a fact people stopped donating for that alone. Mix in people knowing you got a pay day on your property sales while your average JW can barely make rent, it's the perfect storm.

    Now, on a more local level. In my congregation we had 2 people baptized in the last year. We'll say a little shy of a 2% growth. BUT, we had 2 JW die, 1 completely leave, 3 DF and I can speculate on a few going inactive but I have no proof for that. For the 2 that were baptized, we lost 6. Most halls are close to the same in the US.

    Our donations have completely dried up. We had to lower the amount we send to the branch each month by $1,000.00 just to try to stay afloat. Not to mention we just had a hall remodel right before the the arrangement changed. Our hall should be donating a lot more as per the direction. We have not had a positive financial month in the last 2 1/2 years. I have proof of that from the congregation statements.

    That is just one hall. I think things have gotten pretty bad for these PROUD men to start asking for money. We're going to see bigger downsizing or a collapse. They will be forced to really downsize in the future if this last year is anything to go by.

    I wonder how much longer they can keep this artificial "growth" going for. I can't imagine they can be down sizing and saying how much growth their is. They're trying to keep it up even after closing down branches and KH but eventually it will get too obvious.

    Them asking for money is also hurting them. Only so man JW are really hardcore. I suspect that 1/3 if not more of JW want out or just do enough to get by. If they were donating and now have the GB saying they're in trouble I could see it making them completely stop for a chance to get out.

    I feel them asking for money will cause people to donate less on a large scale basis.

    What I worry about is how hard they will start tightening their grip if they don't get the needed donations to keep up with their current life style. They've already started asking, I can see them going to even more extreme measures.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    I dont think the top of the org believes the growth is real. They know better than anyone what a fragile pyramid it all is... This building program isnt about handling expansion of membership. Its about parking money. Building is very common way for the wealthy to "park" their money. Its got decent return on investment and is reasonably secure. Its not totally liquid but its fairly well "hidden" in a way cash is not. They arnt stupid or fooled nor are they drinking koolaid. They are cunningly managing assets.
  • sir82
    sir82

    They've already started asking, I can see them going to even more extreme measures.

    Like what?

    I've got my own ideas, but I'm curious what others think.

  • thedepressedsoul
    thedepressedsoul
    Like what?
    I've got my own ideas, but I'm curious what others think.


    There are honestly so many options. It all depends on how desperate they get. I could really seem them doing another donation slip except asking you to link your card so it's pulled monthly. You can already do that on JW.org but I feel this could be something that once you agree, they add it to JW.org and it's tracked.

  • thedepressedsoul
    thedepressedsoul
    I dont think the top of the org believes the growth is real.

    You may be right but they believe their other crap. If they don't they sure did a great job making everyone else believe it.

  • John Aquila
    John Aquila

    Building is very common way for the wealthy to "park" their money. Its got decent return on investment and is reasonably secure. Its not totally liquid but its fairly well "hidden" in a way cash is not. They arnt srupid or fooled nor are they drinking koolaid. They are cunningly managing assets.

    Totally agree Morpheus,

    That's how the rich do it, Stock, treasury bills, and property.

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe
    There are honestly so many options. It all depends on how desperate they get. I could really seem them doing another donation slip except asking you to link your card so it's pulled monthly. You can already do that on JW.orgbut I feel this could be something that once you agree, they add it to JW.org and it's tracked.

    Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but the last CO visit I attended (about 7 months back) he was pushing this feature of JW.org. "It just makes everything so much easier! You never have to wonder 'Did I donate yet this month?' - it's all done for you automatically!" When you stop and think that this is being said by a guy who doesn't actually donate money to the cult it becomes somewhat comical that he was saying it like it was some big stressor in his life.

    Another thought - the auto-donate doesn't actually give you a way to donate money to the local KH, does it? It seems to me that they're trying to make it easier to donate to "mother" but let more and more forget to donate to the local expenses, thereby off-loading the begging for money onto the local elders. Then when there's a local needs talk about needing money, it will be about local expenses and all the good little JWs will say "Well I don't like that they're asking for money, but that's just the local congregation - the organization as a whole is still good and doesn't solicit money like christendom"

  • thedepressedsoul
    thedepressedsoul
    That's how the rich do it, Stock, treasury bills, and property.

    Yea, I think they got burned with stocks though. The issue may be that they are running out of liquid cash to plop on these properties. Not to mention they may not be getting as much back from them like they thought they would.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus

    Lol at myself john... I saw in ur quote i fatfingered a word...

    as for not getting get ROI on the property, i think thats excatly what this new building program is for. New generaic KH that look like commercial space, ready to sell. Primed and ready as they stand. Plus land is always an asset. They arent making anymore after all....

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I totally agree with Morpheus. I also think that upper connected people (not necessary GB) are swinging funds to their family or buddies in land purchases, construction supplies, legal transactions, etc. on all this.

    Money needs to be locked up in properties instead of liquid for reasons of lawsuits. But the new style for Kingdom Halls allows volunteers to pay for and build them and they will be easier to sell than the previous styles.

    So let's review: WTS takes all the money, they look like they are spending it back into the membership, the membership continues to pay into the slush fund, buildings are ready to sell for at least no loss and probably a profit should the slush fund ever dry up in a particular area.

    =======================================================

    Edited to add:
    Maybe they have even copied close enough, a style of small business that is popular enough to sell. Heck, maybe they even are in cahoots with some people ready to put small businesses in the exact same locations should buildings come available. Like HHGregg stores moved into closed Circuit City buildings.

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