Armageddon in 1975 'probability' or 'possibility'? Irrefutable Proof the Watchtower Said 1975 Was "Game Over!" (page 6)

Finkelstein

It should be noted that the WTS selectively cherry picked out bible scriptures that could be used in their own literature proliferation agenda as a publishing house.

problemaddict 2

Hey Fisherman,

Hello to you. I can't say i have ever seen anyone take up the mantle of defending 1975 or the culture surrounding it at the time. Good for you.

Since the conversation has gone two way let me separate the thoughts.

1) 1975. I was born after this. I have no first hand accounts to relate. I have no specific qualms to support. I didn't not go to college because of it or max out credit cards (which is ridiculous whether encouraged or not). While I would agree there is no smoking gun that just says the world is ending in 1975, I think it would be disingenuous to suggest that the society did not enjoy the fervor and zeal leading up to that date just in case. Franz at least seemed enamored with it as a real plausibility, and many latched on because as JW's we are always taught we have special insight, and to listen to the slave. So at the very least can you agree that they poured gasoline on the situation unnecessarily by the statements made in assemblies, directly from the GB, and in print? As a footnote lets also recognize that the anti-type of creating days related to each thousand years of human history since creation is also not understood by easily 99% of Jehovah's Witnesses, not has it been explained in decades.

I'm eager for your thoughts.

stillin

After the fact of nothing special happening in 1975, those who bought cars thinking that they would never have to pay for them, and those who sold cars, thinking that they could pioneer during the last year of this old system are now viewed as spiritually weak. Serving with a date in view. Serving Jehovah is for eternity.

That's the spin. True that the excitement was good for the growth of the organization. I personally came in early in 1975. It wasn't really hyped up where I was. I heard stories and I certainly heard responsible brothers repeating the words they had heard from some circuit overseer. But I was pretty excited about what the Bible message was(or seemed to be) and the date just didn't register on my radar.

Fisherman

Fisherman, How did YOU react to those articles and talks from 1968-1975? Did YOU make decisions that negatively and permanently changed your life?

So, you think that the only JWs around are those born after you ? Not everyone feels like you do and not everyone made the sacrifices they did for the same reason you did and not everyone regrets they made them. If you do not believe me, ask JWS that were your contemporaries.

3rdgen

Fisherman, Are you saying you are at least 60 years old and made the decisions the Society suggested/demanded at the time and have NO regrets? If so, then so be it. My 96 yo mother has no regrets as well.

However, you imply that my family and I made the decisions and sacrifices we did for the Wrong reasons. How would you know what our reasons were? What were the wrong reasons? BTW, We didn't selfishly buy things we thought we would never have to pay for or run up credit card bills. We made decisions based on love of our creator, our fellow man, and what we thought God was directing us to do through his earthly organization. The organization was wrong and failed it's devotees. Whether they realize it or not doesn't change the facts.

Bungi Bill

My analysis of WTS teaching assumes 4026 to be the date of Adam's creation.

More about that word you just used ("ASSUME")

- It makes an

ASS

out of U

and ME

If you at all know what is good for you, never assume anything!

Bill.

Bungi Bill

While I would agree there is no smoking gun that just says the world is ending in 1975,

The thought, though, was left hanging there - not once - but many, many times during the years 1966-1975. From that, it is obvious what the WTS wanted its readers to think:

- i.e. that 1975 was going to be the year that saw "this system" end.

That their publications presented 1975 as a "probability" rather than a mere "possibility" was even admitted to in the Kingdom Proclaimers book, that came out in the early 1990s.

Examples in writing are not hard to find. To cite just two of many:

The one that kicked it all off Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God" (1966), which actually used the expression "appropriate" to describe the system ending in 1975.
That 1968 magazine article entitled "Why are you looking forward to 1975?"

Particularly with that 1968 magazine article, even Blind Freddie (no relation to Mad Freddie!) could see the conclusion that the WTS wanted its readers to draw. And it worked! That is indeed what nearly all readers of those articles concluded.

This is just what was written during those years leading up to 1975. What was spoken from the platform (at the Kingdom Hall, Circuit and District Assemblies, opening of new branch facilities etc) was often much more pointed. Some of that has been preserved in tape recordings, such as Charles Sunutko's infamous 1967 "Stay Alive until 1975" diatribe.

So even if there is no actual, official, written statement to be found in which the WTS said outright in so many words that the end of the system would definitely happen in 1975, it certainly did nothing to discourage that idea, either:

- somebody here on this post has used the term "threw gasoline" onto the situation. That would have to be the very kindest thing that could be said about the WTS's conduct over this matter during those years 1966 -1975. (Never mind that their 1963 All Scriptures Inspired publication cautioned against speculation about this date. By three years later, that had become "Old Light" - to be replaced by "New Shyte"!)

Bill (who was an avid reader of everything the WTS printed over the years 1966 -1994)

Finkelstein

When you think about it 1975 was a great marketing ploy for the WTS, most JWS lapped it up like ice cream on a hot day and a portion of the general public as well, for the WTS experienced its highest increase during the early 1970's.

Most JWS including myself didn't know that this 6000 dating calculation was used 60 years previously by C T Russell. I sort of smelled a rat in there someone where when F Franz pin pointed the time right to October of 75.

He must have thought he pulled the wool over everyones eyes well enough to do that.

Moral of the story, never under estimate what religious charlatans will do when it comes to attracting attention to something their selling or trying to cultivate money !

Fisherman

Hello problemaddict2 !

I enjoyed reading your post on this thread. The way you write and what you wrote reveals a lot about you (not negative things.) I then read some of your other posts to check if my conclusions about you were true, and they were. Of course, I could not verify if all of the conclusions I formed about you are also true. I see that you have inside insight about 1975 and you also understand something about the WTS and JW. No point in re-hashing what you already know.

Second and third generation JW have the benefit of not having to figure everything out on their own in terms of understanding WTS teachings. The Genesis 3:15 woman for example, that is very hard to understand, and for some JW it could take many years to grasp although they believe the teaching and can recite who the woman is. But at some point in time in the JW way, the JW becomes convinced of it whether they understand or not. At some point though it all clicks in the mind to anyone with any intelligence at all.

One of the motivating reasons for becoming a JW or staying a JW is the taught nearness of the GT. Seems that date is the only reason for some people, and when they decide that the GT is not coming or not coming as as soon as they (since 1914 the wt has been deriving conclusions about dates) expected, they would rather be doing other things than going to meetings or the full time service, so they leave the ftw or they leave JW and they do what is in their hearts. 1975 was a very plausible year for the GT to strike. Not only did it line up with Adam's creation but also with the generation of those that were 20 years old in 1914. Thinking JWS of that era understood this and set their hopes on the date and the ones that did not understand, believed and also set their hopes. 1995 was only 20 years after 1975 but the old generation teaching expired. Here we are in 2015 -2016 expecting something to happen, I suppose not later than 2016. The definition of 1914 generation would not seem to make any sense anymore after 2026, neither does the preaching work. Based on the seeson, "Heaven and Earth will pass away but my words will never pass away."

jhine

Fisherman , I have had to reread your post a few times . You said

" thinking JWs of that era understood this and set their hopes on this date "

With respect does no one in the WT read the Bible ? Does the GB Know better than Christ .? Now I know why you have ignored my question , you ignore the Bible , to suit WT teaching .

How can you justify date setting ? Do you not see that this is the WTs way of ensuring unquestioning obedience? By instilling fear into the hearts of Witnesses so that they ignore doubts and problems because if they are questioning the GB - not the Bible - when Armageddon comes , and it is coming SOON , then they will not survive .

This works for many people and so the WT keeps the pressure on by keeping attention focused on Armageddom coming , and away from uncomfortable questions.

Jan

n

Armageddon in 1975 'probability' or 'possibility'? Irrefutable Proof the Watchtower Said 1975 Was "Game Over!"

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