Michael Brown verdict discussion policy - take II

by Simon 95 Replies latest forum announcements

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  Simon

  How can you know they have already decided the result they want based on race?

  You can't know this. You DON'T know this.

  Heck, with me for example, you could not even know the result I want in this case, let alone why I want it. because I never, ever, even once said the result I want.

  I don't pretend to know what you think ... but then I never said that I did. All I can ever tell you if what your words make me believe that you think. And I think it's very very clear that there were a good many people who pre-judged the case based on race. If you believe that is wrong then I have a bridge to sell you.

  Can you appreciate that for someone to argue they think the decision is injust based on a whole number of racial equality issues and then turn round and say their opinion of the case is not in the slightest motivated by any consideration of race ... well, it is difficult to reconcile the two other than to believe that they are not being honest about one or the other.

  I'm not saying that is your opinion. But it seems to be a viewpoint that is easy to find.
• 

  Simon

  Sowell's a smart guy but maybe a course lesson in: Why People Riot, its complexities, is in order.

  The two opinions are totally compatible. Sowell was saying the rioting was not solely in response to the verdict alone.

  "Deep-seated resentments, repetitive frustrations and long standing disappointments galvanize people into action. And the mob provides cover, an anonymity that makes it easier to overcome one's usual reticence or moral scruples."

  One side is arguing that the verdict is fair based on the evidence. The other says that social injustices are unfair and want to make the verdict a judgement on those.

  They can both be 'right' but the verdict of the case can only be about one thing.
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  lisaBObeesa

  All I can ever tell you if what your words make me believe that you think. And I think it's very very clear that there were a good many people who pre-judged the case based on race.

  You don't know that. You can't know that.

  I think that YOU prejudge anyone that brings up anything about racial inequities in America as racist, and it is not true that anyone who brings up racial inequities is racist!

  Can you appreciate that for someone to argue they think the decision is injust based on a whole number of racial equality issues and then turn round and say their opinion of the case is not in the slightest motivated by any consideration of race.

  Considering race or racial issues in society does not make a person racist.
• 

  Simon

  You don't know that. You can't know that.

  Are you kidding me? There were crowds of people saying he was shot while trying to surrender and all because he was black. Do you watch the news at all or do you think they were all pretending?

  I think that YOU prejudge anyone that brings up anything about racial inequities in America as racist, and it is not true that anyone who brings up racial inequities is racist!

  I haven't said that. I am saying that anyone who thinks guilt or innocence can or should be based on color is a racist. That doesn't seem to be to be controversial in the least.

  What you really object to is the suggestion that black people can possibly be racist. Do you believe that the racial bias that you were arguing for on another topic only works in one direction?

  Considering race or racial issues in society does not make a person racist.

  And I didn't say that either. But trying to make a single case a judgement ob racism in society OR use racism in society to judge a single case is exhibiting a certain bias in my opinion.

  It should really be a discussion of racism in society with cases brought in to that context, not the other way around.

  Can I make a suggestion? I think you will get far less "wound up" in these discussions if you take a little longer to read and then re-read what I have actually said instead of seeing what I can only assume you want to imagine I have said.
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  lisaBObeesa

  Can I make a suggestion? I think you will get far less "wound up" in these discussions if you take a little longer to read and then re-read what I have actually said instead of seeing what I can only assume you want to imagine I have said.

  back at ya.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  lisaBObeesa - it seems the only racist people we know for sure re. Ferguson are the group of black 'protesters' who beat a white Bosnian immigrant to death using hammers. Please see EndofMystery's thread.
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  lisaBObeesa

  lisaBObeesa - it seems the only racist people we know for sure re. Ferguson are the group of black 'protesters' who beat a white Bosnian immigrant to death using hammers. Please see EndofMystery's thread.

  I saw some news storys about this...terrible! I didn't see anything about the 15 and 16 year old cold-blooded murderers being protesters or anything about race being the motive. I will the check the thread...
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  LoveUniHateExams

  lisa - I see you're quick to mention ages as if this would save them from having to show any sort of responsibility, nice.

  They were walking around carrying hammers - I think it's safe to assume they weren't offering to put a shelf up for anybody.
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  The sentiment of the OJ case around the black people in my area was basically "we're happy that the system worked in favor of a black man for once and we can benefit from the same tehcnicalities as everyone else, there -is- hope," and not necessarily that he was innocent

  Forgive me that I haven't read all the posts since this one -- frankly, I'm tiring of the event.

  I think there is the same sentiment -- but in reverse -- with the MB decision. He may have been a "thug" and he may have reacted in ways with this cop (DW) that contributed to his death. Never the less, the law should not be such that taking a human life by "the government" is so easily forgiven or even sanctioned. MB was a rebel. Like many black youths, he was likely disadvantaged, and his upbringing gave him a prejudicial distrust of "society" and "authority".

  I'm an old white dude and I have that same distrust of "government" and "authority". I've never "needed" the police. They prey on the public that they are supposed to "protect". In our society, if you have money, you do not have this fear of "authority" because if you have enough money you can get away with murder......literally......if you aren't too blatant and too stupid about committing the murder. You have to leave grounds for "reasonable doubt". Your lawyer will do the rest.

  I find it ironic that it may be the MB case that improves the accountability of law enforcement. Body cameras will be a huge and significant improvement. We'll have to see if Obama does more than simply "recommend" them and provide 50% of the cost for them. This is money better spent that equipping Ferguson (or similar Barney Fife Departments) with military armaments.

  JMHO

  Doc
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  lisaBObeesa

  lisa - I see you're quick to mention ages as if this would save them from having to show any sort of responsibility, nice.

  They were walking around carrying hammers - I think it's safe to assume they weren't offering to put a shelf up for anybody.

  you think you can read my mind and can know my motives and what I think about this new case, a case I myself know hardly anything about.

  You are talking to some imaginary person you think is me, not to me.