16-year-old JW daughter doesn't want to visit, I have visitation rights (page 2)

blondie

Sad to say, what works with one child is not guaranteed to work any other child. The problem here as I see it is she is emotionally attached to both parents but the one she lives with has more control emotionally. Has she been told not to call you, email you, text you or respond to your contacts? If so, this is a tactic non-jw parents use to break the relationship with the non-custodial parent. Just different tactics are used to manipulate the child. I have found people have to see the unkindness and experience it from the WTS, KH, and jw family. In time she will be more independent financially and emotionally and can make person decisions.

BetterGuyNow

BU2B - Ah, thank you. And yes, subtly, I've brought things up over the years. I may have shot myself in the foot somewhat being supportive of her making her own religious choice, because I know full well it wasn't a choice. What is it we were told about bad association? If you're around them, you'll do it.

Magwitch - Thank you so much for your experience. That is precisely what I don't want to happen. I've been in agony about this since August when she left. It is such a confusing situation because it's simply unnatural. I spent the first half of my life being indoctrinated that JWs were the only true religion. Since I've been out, I have no religion. Maybe fallout from that line of thinking for so long, maybe I was just always going to be at best an agnostic. But tearing up a family is wrong naturally, not just religiously.

It's also difficult that her mother remarried two weeks after the divorce was final (to a guy who hadn't even been baptized yet! - She does what she wants and is still in good standing. Ack!) So I have to contend with that slap in the face that my daughter is being raised by another man. That happens all over, of course, it's not a JW thing, but her excluding me from her life is.

A friend turned me onto this site last week. I am so happy I posted. For the first time in months I feel like someone understands where this all is coming from and not just use it as a chance to bash the Witnesses. That's all fine and dandy at the right time, but just doesn't help. People who have never been "in the truth" don't realize the power and how easily it can get you to do unnatural things without thinking about them.

Thank you all.

bigmac

welcome to my world--and the site.

i lost contact with my 3 kids 30 years ago---frankly--theres not a blind thing you can do about it ( i'm in the UK )

my d/f son--now 38--has been in a new relationship with me for the last 4 years--and he's gone through exactly the same with his 2 kids--and spent £ thousands in legal costs trying to enforce his access rights.

i know of several other ex jw dads here in the UK in the same boat. the cult just makes parental access far more difficult than it so often is. you would think a " christian " religion would be there to help a broken family maintain contact. but that cult is certainly not christian.

BU2B

I think she will come around. She sees that you are loving and reasonable and that her mother is not. Just let her know you are there for her unconditionally, no matter what happens. She does not have unconditional love from anyone else in her life.

DesirousOfChange

If you have visitation rights then I assume that is a COURT ORDER.

I'd tell my daughter that the COURT recognizes the importance that a child see/visit both parents and the Bible says "obey Caesar's laws". Is her mother telling her to disobey the law? Maybe you should call your lawyer. You should have mentioned lawyer to the Service Desk too. Lawsuits get their attention.

Doc

Simon

The truth is that the reason they are pressuring her to make it "her decision" is probably so that it overrides whatever the court may decide or be used to influence them.

Unfortunately, there are no easy or guaranteed solutions. Just try not to make any sort of confrontation over religion or get suckered into trying to prove the religion wrong. Don't attack the negativity as that plays into their hands. Instead, constantly remind her and reiterate your love and care which is then the thing she is going to remember.

Kids aren't stupid but they want to please both parents and it's difficult if you are living with one and they are being unreasonable. At some point she will be able to make her own choices and at that point she'll be basing them on what she remembers of how everyone acted.

There is no garantee though - she could get sucked into the religion and not figure it out for many years or ever but if she was so upset then it's unlikely that she'll completely forget about it.

Still, it doesn't hurt to fight for access legally without it being anything she see's directly - if she does hear of your attempt then she'll appreciate you trying and not think you have given up on her. Do what you can to keep in touch. Even if it's just to say "hi" or take her for a coffee if she'll let you.

144001

Simon's advice is sound. On the legal side, while you have visitation rights, some states, including California, will not force a minor over the age of 14 to visit with a parent who has visitation rights if the child does not want to visit with them. On the practical side, even if you could legally force the issue, it would likely result in resentment and push her to be more zealous about her beliefs.

Depending on the laws of your state, it is possible that you could file a motion that asks the court to issue an order requiring your child to attend "reunification therapy" sessions that would be conducted by a psychologist and involve the entire family. While a court can be willing to make such an order, again, if the child refuses to attend the sessions, or attends them in protest, they will be ineffective.

Good luck!

ABibleStudent

Welcome BetterGuyNow, I'm sorry that your daughter's cult persona doesn't want to be with you. Hopefully, the following ideas will help you to help your daughter to critically think for herself:

Read information by cult-exit counselors like Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), visit his website at www.freedomofmind.com, and/or watch his FREE videos on his website.
I recommend that you watch the following four videos to convince yourself that Steve Hassan's ideas can help y ou before buying his books: How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01), The BITE Model (Behavior Information Thought Emotion) (5:03), What is the Strategic Interactive Approach? (4:21), Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23).
If you are financially well off, I would also recommend talking with Steve Hassan or one of his coaches by calling 617-396-4638 about specific ideas to help your daughter.
Learn how to ask simple questions like Billy the Ex-Bethelite did in the thread exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed . You can ask JWs difficult questions by pretending that you did not know how to respond to a question that someone asked you about JWs. Also, ask simple questions to learn more about what a JW's authentic persona loves to do.
Learn how to turn-off a JW's cult persona and empower a JW's authentic persona.
Learn how to overcome thought-stopping platitudes that JWs use, like why does a JW feel that the Watchtower has the "Truth". Does that mean that other religions are teaching falsehoods? What proof do JW's have that the Watchtower is teaching the "Truth"? Don't accept general answers. Ask for specific proof in a curious tone of voice and demeanor. Or, when JWs say "Where else shall we go?, ask them "Don't you mean to whom shall you go? According to John 6:68-69, Simon Peter said to Jesus Christ. Listen to JWs to learn what platitudes or cult-speak (i.e., "Worldly", "Apostate", etc.) that they use, and then afterwards think how you can overcome it and practise you delivery.
Encourage JWs to independently research subjects they are interested in (like making hotel and travel reservations) or to complete school assignments by using the internet . Once JWs learn how to search the internet and feel comfortable doing it, they may start searching the internet about Watchtower or Jehovah topics.
Encourage JWs to do fun, time-consuming, non-Watchtower activities/hobbies that they love and where they can meet more non-JWs.
Do you have a Facebook account? Create a Facebook page with all the fun things that you have done with your daughter and with the rest of your family.
Email your daughter lots of pictures of you and your family having fun together doing things that your daughter enjoys.
Do not force or guilt your daughter to visit you as much as you are entitled to legally. Invite her to go on vacations with you and your family.
Show and tell your daughter how much you love her.
Do you know any ex-JWs, who live in the same city as your daughter? If you do, ask them how they can help you.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

kairos

I can fully appreciate the anger this creates.

JW's always say they have loving families, but the truth is, they engage in behavior that really does break them up.

We've all seen it, yet they cannot.

Bella15

. knowing how this cult operates, I am sorry I have no words but to wish you have a good emotional support system to endure this. So sorry. I really believe this cult's years are numbered.

16-year-old JW daughter doesn't want to visit, I have visitation rights

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