What were the calculations used to arrive at the 1874 date of Christ's return? (page 4)

JWdaughter

I see where Scooby was coming from. Russell WAS speculating, but out of a sincerity, perhaps. Rutherford was just about running the show and manipulating everyone to get what he wanted, from what I have observed of his writings, his actions and reports of his character.

So, it is worse than speculation-even of making dubious(delusional?) claims to be being led by God. Rutherford was not just speculating and his sins in the org were not based in delusion or even really bad math! He was just playing people. Speculation wrongs are the least of his wrongs against JWs (bible students!).

Apognophos

I've doubted Rutherford's sincerity too at times, but let me put this out there: if he didn't believe in the teachings, then why did he make his 1925 prediction, the one that ended up making him look like "an ass"? Sure, it got him some press at the time, but he would have had to be pretty stupid to think it was going to pay off long-term. And indeed, according to what I've read here, he lost around 75% of the Bible Students over that failed prophecy.

sparky1

GOVERNING BODY 2.0 meeting: Trying to 'bury' old light and 'dig' up a new date for Armageddon to drive the flock harder.

Vidiot

zoos - "What were the calculations used to arrive at the 1874 date of Christ's return?"

Vidiot

Vanderhoven7 - "I was more referring to the theological base for WT alleged spirital authority..."

Closest thing the WTS has for a "theological base" is "'cause we say so".

Which, in retrospect, explains why it's so hard to find.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Russell WAS speculating, but out of a sincerity, perhaps.

Using words like "Scriptural proof", "god's dates" and "definitely" veers WAY out speculating territory.

Besides, WT has never cut anyone else a break for being wrong but sincere. In WT's view, sincerity is not an excuse. Even if CT Russell was speculating (he wasn't), WT continued the great tradition after Russell's death, and it's hardline stance nullifies any attempt it may make to excuse itself.

Historically, WT claims it was a sincere speculator only AFTER it fails yet again (1914;1925;1975); when teachings are current WT is always speaking directly for god and challenges within the ranks are squashed immediately. Genuine speculators don't squash dissent.

kaik

Russell did not speculate, he believed his own shit. At least this is my perception reading his publications. He was extremely disappointed when his prophesies and secret mysteries of Bible did not come through. I would be interesting if he made it another three years to see the end of WWI. I do not see he ever deviated from 1874 nonsense. Addition to his work were done by Rutherford after his death, which tried to twist the 1874 fiasco by 1919. However, it was not until the Great Depression when the 1874 was moved 40 years later and when it was clear that nobody from 1799 was anymore alive.