Funny Video - Phone call to Bethel

by Listener 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Cold Steel

  15 “If your brother or sister [ a ] sins, [ b ] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ [ c ] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

  I'm not sure what Listener's point is regarding the above. The scripture here states that any two Christians ought to be able to work out their differences. If they can't work something out, take the matter to the church and seek arbitration there. If your adversary refuses to listen even to the church, then you have some justification for not associating with him/her any further.

  It does not mean pick up the phone and call the leading authorities of the church. That's why there are local authorities and general authorities. The idea is not to take the issue to an apostle or general leader of the church; rather, you take the matter to your local authorities (not the courts). If your adversary will not take their judgment to heart, then don't have anything to do with that person again. As Christians, we still are under obligation to forgive. "I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive; but unto you it is required to forgive all men."

  To call church headquarters and expect general leaders of the church to handle it is to bypass the chain of command that was established. Moses had to be taught delegation by Jethro. Likewise, the ancient leaders of the church ordained bishops and elders to handle such matters on a local level. I see no reason to believe it an admonition to take one's personal disputations all the way to the top.
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  steve2

  Cold Steel presumes to know what the issue is about and to conclude it is not between Unwitness and Anthony Morris. As Unwitness repeatedly said to the "thick-as-a-brick" Bethel "brother" attempting to pry details: "This is a private matter".

  Nothing in the video suggests it is a general issue which would admittedly be better dealt with by elders. Even superstars of religious organizations cannot be expected to personally front up for rank and file concerns.

  Yet, nothing in scripture precludes any Christian from the need to front up in private and in person should an issue of contention exist between him/her and another Christian - not even (ahem) 'appointed' elevated positions.
• 

  Cold Steel

  O, c'mon, Steve, Unwitness specifically told the secretary it was in regards to Matthew 18:15-17. Why didn't he just say, "No thank you, it's a personal call. I'll call back"? By letting the old fellow know he wasn't a personal friend of Mr. Morris, he kicked in the man's call screening mode. It's his job to protect the boss from crank calls and strangers who may be...I dunno...videographing something for YouTube.

  All in all, he did his job.

  To get a better chance of connecting, Unwitness could have said, "Oh, no thanks. My call is personal. Just tell him that...oh, never mind. I want it to be a surprise. I haven't talked to him in some time. So I'll just call back tomorrow. Mom said I should touch base with him if I was in town, that he'd probably want to talk to me. So can you not mention it?"

  Can't say how long Morris would stay on the phone with him, but at least his chances would be better than if he started quoting scripture.

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  P.S. -- He can also call the secretary back and, if he can't get through, say, "Yeh...tell him that Vito says if he doesn't pay back the money he owes him, that Amageddon is gonna be rollin' around even sooner than he expects...catch my meanin'? I mean, I don't wanna haft to roll no fish in a newspaper and have it delivered to his family, capisce? You borrow money, you pay it back, right? Er...by the way, what'd you say your name was?"
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  steve2

  Cold Steel, he did say he would call back and inquired about the best time to do so. You will recall the reply was more circumlocution from the Watchtower spokesman that went on for minutes until eventually the spokesman admitted the GB are too busy to take calls. More than once Unwitness said it was a private matter.

  As regards the way Unwitness began the call, I can only agree with you: It was not the most effective way to do so. But that's a separate matter from the central messsge of the call: Even in seemingly private matters, the GB are above having scripture applied to them.
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  Cold Steel

  Yes, he said he would call back and inquired about the best time to do so, but then he kept yapping and trying to egg the secretary on.

  When I call someone and they're not there, I don't hang on and start a chat with the secretary. The secretary is not your friend. He or she is put there specifically to weed people like us out. Those guys in the Governing Body don't want to chat with the general membership. They see themselves as latter day apostles (though not really called or ordained). Jehovah just sort of picked them, like Jeremiah, before they were born. If one wanted to call and ask them where and how they received their callings, that would be a much more insightful question and more germane to the topic at hand. But you have to reach them before you can ask them.

  And that old brother isn't about to connect anyone who seems like they want a debate! As Unwitness said himself, the pope wouldn't take a call like that; nor would Billy Graham or any other insulated religious leader. The members of the Governing Body believe themselves to have the most important callings in the world, greater than the pope or the late Graham. They're big fish in a little pond and they're used to being sought after with respect and a certain amount of awe. They aren't there to talk to members. That's what the elders are for.
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  steve2

  I take your points Cold Steel. Even so, the inexpert, somewhat round-about response style of the Watchtower spokesman did not help. Corporations usually have polished protocols for callers who expect to talk to "the Boss". In one company I worked in, no phone call could be documented unless the caller provided their name and number. Callers who wanted to raise a private matter with the " higher echelons" were told very clearly but kindly that their call could not br passed on but that the details of their inquiry could. I have concluded that the bumbling nature of the exchange between Unwitness and the spokesman was more attributable to the latter's unprofessional handling of the issue. In any call to other corporations, Unwitness be lucky to get 2 minutes with his kind of request before termination.

  Take home message: The organization needs to have a transparent responses style thst makes it crystalclear the caller's request could not be met - without beating round the bush.