NEW JW POLICY POSTED!!!

by amac 67 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    You are right Sloboy. I realize that not everyone wants the same thing and I shouldn't have generalized.

    So what do you want then regarding the WT? Reform? Destruction? Do you want things to remain the same? Do you just want to vent about how bad things are or how badly you've been treated?

    I was offering a reason why most people posting in this thread did not share the same feelings as Amac on this matter. While many say they are interested in reform, this thread is an example of how people will respond with skepticism (again rightly so) when the Society does make changes. I highly doubt the reform crowd will ever be satisfied. I maintain reform is a half-measure that is accepted with mixed emotions solely for the sake of family that will not leave this cult.

    The topic of reform vs destruction has been debated several times in the past and it generally seems to be the wish of the majority that this thing is out of business at some point, although that is unlikely in the eyes of many. It is also accepted that reform has always been part of the nature of the WT Society and such reforms haven't made us like it any more. If they drop their blood policy and disfellowshipping, we might be less angry, but is anyone around here really going to be lining up to get back in?

    Path

  • Hmmm
    Hmmm

    If reform is the true intent of most here, then why have they not really welcomed any changes that have occurred? They will always be skeptical and distrust the future changes (and rightly so) because of the past. At what stage of reform will this crowd really go away and leave the WT alone?

    I was offering a reason why most people posting in this thread did not share the same feelings as Amac on this matter. While many say they are interested in reform, this thread is an example of how people will respond with skepticism (again rightly so) when the Society does make changes. I highly doubt the reform crowd will ever be satisfied. I maintain reform is a half-measure that is accepted with mixed emotions solely for the sake of family that will not leave this cult.

    We seem to be talking past each other. I never said that reform was the "true intent" of most here. I don't think that most even have a goal (be it reform or destruction) where the WT is concerned. I think we do have a minority who want reform in a few basic areas that cause the most harm to members, and another minority who want the total destruction of the WT. Most of the members of these "groups" will take one outcome if they can't have the other. IMHO, if most here have a goal at all, it is a personal goal of recovery and fellowship with others who will understand.

    These "changes" have not been welcomed because most here are very skeptical that they are genuine. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with anyone's motives for posting here. Somehow, you have made a connection between how a person accepts this news and their overriding motives for being on this DB, and you've insinuated almost sinister motives and "agendas" on anyone who doesn't share your particular reaction--at least that's how you're coming across to many.

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    Hmmm..

    I have to hand it to you for an excellent post. I generalized where I shouldn't have and made assumptions where it was wrong of me to do so. I also overlooked the most simple and obvious conclusion:

    IMHO, if most here have a goal at all, it is a personal goal of recovery and fellowship with others who will understand.

    I do think that most of us when we see something harmful such as the WT, we hope it will either stop hurting people by changing or by going out of existance. The issues highlighted by the child abuse subject and the expectations regarding the Dateline program brought many of these issues into the open.

    Most of the commentary that led up to the Dateline episode airing though went beyond just "personal recovery and fellowship". It pushed for change even though it seems no change will ever be accepted and trusted by this community. I don't believe these reactions or motives exhibited by us are "sinister" and I don't think they are unusual given what most of us have been through. But I do think the never-have-been-JW public will judge this reaction to their now publicly stated policy as being harsh and unfair and since this subject is in the media where the public are the judge, I think we have to take that into consideration.

    Anyway, I have to thank you for your bringing this to my attention and whether I am right or wrong in my assumptions it is certainly wrong of me to have made them in the way I did. I do enjoy your posts as well and hope you let me know where I am out of line in the future. I think I need to take a break from this stuff for a while and check out the "fluff" threads..LOL Thanks

    Path

  • Valis
    Valis
    I do think that most of us when we see something harmful such as the WT, we hope it will either stop hurting people by changing or by going out of existance.

    That's all you had to say.....enough really is enough. they can't hide behind the goody two shoes, we're good people so let us deal with it, bullshit forever...be honest and open for Dog's sake! How could it possibly hurt the religion if they jumped on the proactive anti-pedo bandwagon?

    Sincerely.

    District Overbeer

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    issues that need attention in the Watchtower:

    1) The treatment of women. They are not even allowed to do a Bible READING, or read for the bookstudy, or run microphones or run the soundsystem. In today's world this is atrocious, and what is even more atrocious is the exposure of a girl from the day she is born to the day she is a mature minor to the day she is an adult of this behavior; she is unempowered from the moment she is first carried in her blanket into a kingdom hall. In addition, this blatant and flagrant treatment of women will not attract healthy, well-adjusted women with good self-esteem and a healthy degree of self worth into this religion. This "I don't deserve any better than this" attitude becomes multigenerational, with a lot of help from the fathers and husbands who don't see anything wrong with it either.

    2) Rape resistance. scream, don't scream, in 1998 it is 'scream' and has been for the most part since 1965, if not before. This invasion into the lives of sexual assault survivors is nothing less than atrocious.

    3) Blood/adults. This invasion into the doctor-patient relationship is atrocious. In at least one country it is illegal. The applied expulsion/shunning is not even defensible by Watchtower itself; eating PORK was a death sentence in ancient Israel. Calling all 'ELDER PORK POLICE!!!'

    4) Blood/children. A choice between shunning/expulsion and a life saving blood transfusion therapy is no choice at all for a child and in a growing number of countries in the world it is illegal.

    5) oral/anal sex. This intrusion into the intimate life of a married couple is inexcusable. This policy is still in effect, although it may well be a don't ask/don't tell threshold RIGHT NOW. In addition to the other factors, this rule especially hurts women because many women both past and present, use this type of sexual activity to control the size of their family while still maintaing marital intimacy, and it is private and low-cost.

    6) African-Americans. Oh yes, in the rank and file this segment of the population fares very well. But as you go further up the JW heirarchal ladder (not so visible to the public) you will see the white skins more and more prevalent until you reach the Governing Body itself. One African-American member in 120+ years. As for African-American women and children, see numbers 1-5 above.

    7) Theocratic Warfare Strategy. It's okay to lie sometimes, or obfuscate, or whatever word one wants to use. This will cost Watchtower BIG BIG time; it is an atrocious policy that should be done away with. A lie is a lie. A half-lie is still a lie.

    8) Deceptive Recruiting Tactics. Another policy that will cost Watchtower BIG BIG BIG. In a worst case, one can study in Japan for six months, maybe longer, and not even know you are studying to be a Witness. On this side of the ocean, one can actually become a Jehovah's Witness and not be aware of the rape resistance, oral/anal sex, extreme shunning, and the UN/wild beast issues untill it is TOO LATE.

    9) Rapists at People's Doors. Speaks for itself. Asinine on its face. Totally without redeeming social qualities. Did I say it spoke for itself? Well, I just couldn't resist.

    10) Child baptism/shunning/expulsion. Becoming a legal matter in some countries, and definitely becoming one here. Is abusive at best and at worst can result in premature death of gifted young people, who had their whole lives ahead of them. To those of you, gone now, whose voices we can't hear right now, YOU WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN.

    11) Reporting of intra-organizational sexual offenders. A supposed change finally, to a policy in effect since 1967 and illegal in most states and the Federal Government since I believe 1965.

    Is that enough to get started with? This is not just about changing policy. This is also about getting justice for the survivors, recognition for those whose lives this religion has cost, and closure for everyone. UNTILL that is achieved, this religion does not deserve to exist and CERTAINLY does not deserve TAX EXEMPT STATUS.

  • Hmmm
    Hmmm
    Most of the commentary that led up to the Dateline episode airing though went beyond just "personal recovery and fellowship". It pushed for change even though it seems no change will ever be accepted and trusted by this community. I don't believe these reactions or motives exhibited by us are "sinister" and I don't think they are unusual given what most of us have been through. But I do think the never-have-been-JW public will judge this reaction to their now publicly stated policy as being harsh and unfair and since this subject is in the media where the public are the judge, I think we have to take that into consideration.

    Path,

    I agree. I think the general public might look at the average reaction on this board and say "these people will never be satisfied." However, I think it was so new, and so BIG that the more extreme minority became much more vocal, seeing this as a possible clarion call. Even those of us who like to think of ourselves as more middle-of-the-road may have seen a chance to cause some small change and/or damage to the WT, and come across as more extreme.

    I don't really worry too much about that, though. If the hullabaloo raised over the UN and pedophilia issues causes non-JWs to pause before getting dunked, that will give them the time to judge for themselves where the truth lies.

    Thanks, again, for your reasonable response. I think your statements were a tad extreme at times, but you are at least extremely politely extreme.

    The question I ask myself is at what point would I accept that the society really is applying their stated policy--as inadequate as it may be? I think it's just something they'd have to prove over time... but I ain't holding my breath.

    Hmmm

    Edited by - hmmm on 17 June 2002 20:38:3

  • freedomhouse3
    freedomhouse3

    "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me."

  • joeleejr44
    joeleejr44

    Hey everyone I wanted to post my new book for all EX-Jehovah Witnesses to look at and read. My book is about my experiences growing up in a abusive and violent home as a Jehovah Witness. The organization changed my life and my mom life and how she views our relationship. My book is entitled "Growing Up A Winess" and the website is www.growingupawitness.com and is available now. My hope is that my book can help everyone especially young people know that you are no alone and you can live your life after being a Witness.

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