WT Public Information-Position On Murder

by silentlambs 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • silentlambs
    silentlambs

    How would the WT Public Information explain their position on other crimes such as Bank Robbery, Rape, or even Murder? Would they present their position in the same way as child molestation? If so here is an example for WT media to post with the proper changes.

    Position on Murder

    Murder is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one murder is one too many. For decades The Watchtower and Awake! have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and need to protect brothers and sisters from murderers. Among others, there was the article "Why Abhor Murder?" published in the March 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower ; "Help for the Murder Victims" in the August 1, 1983, Watchtower; "When the Victim Is in Danger!", "How Can We Protect Ourselves From Murder?", and "Preventing Murder in the Home", all in the November 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as "Murder—Everyone's Nightmare" in the May 22, 1985, Awake!

    When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of murder, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accusers survivors to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victims family to restate their position in each other's presence, with the elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.

    However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply. Additionally, the victim’s family may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.

    If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of murder, the elders take appropriate congregational action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentant—is cut to the heart and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future—what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: "For the protection of the congregation, a man known to have been a murderer does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah's Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service." He would not qualify Scripturally. (1 Timothy 3:2, 7-10) We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting future victims. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually.—2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4.

    In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of murder have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All of the factors are considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago a 16-year-old boy murdered a worldly person before he was baptized. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdiction where he lived when this happened, elders may have been required to report this as an incident of murder. Let us say that 20 years have passed. The statue of limitations for murder reporting law may have changed; the man may have even have not killed anyone since! He has been living an exemplary life and is respected. In such a rare case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation.

    Our procedures have been refined over time. Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We are continuing to refine them. We do not believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on murder. Anyone in a responsible position who is guilty of murder would be removed from his responsibilities without hesitation. We certainly would not knowingly allow him to serve elsewhere, either because he moved or through a transfer.

    The Bible teaches that individuals can repent of their sins and "turn to God by doing works that befit repentance," and we accept what the Bible says. (Acts 26:20) Still, the safety of the publishers is of the utmost importance. We take it very seriously.

  • Hmmm
    Hmmm

    "However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action."

    So is it safe to assume that we wont be learning of any letters from COs that a man had murdered 17 people, but nothing was done because there were not two eyewitnesses to a single act? This sin allows separate testimonies to be considered? Interesting.

    Hmmm

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    (From http://watchtower.observer.org)

    Do the Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses actually protect murderers and other criminals from the police? You be the judge.

    http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=WO&Date=20020411&Category=JWANDSOCIETY1&ArtNo=10515001&Ref=AR

    "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible" - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126
    Believe in yourself, not mythology.
    <x ><

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Perfect.

    AlanF

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    Alan,

    : Perfect.

    I entirely disagree. The comparison is invalid for the reason that murder, for most murderers, is generally not a compelling addiction or a behavior that is acted upon often and repeatedly. Also, the testimony of a dead person is basically sound (the act was indeed committed as someone is dead). It is far more difficult to corroborate an alleged molestation.

    In reality what we're discussing here is not molestation or murder or any such criminal issues, but rather the internal judicial protocols of the JW church. I would appreciate a straighforward answer from Bill Bowen in this regard: Does he believe that the JWs have biblical and scriptural support for their protocol or not?

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Cygnus, the problem is that they ARE using a strict interpretation of the bible.

    That cannot be used as a valid excuse though... Religious freedom is not absolute; the secular laws limit it. Just as a religion cannot use illegal drugs for rituals, a religion cannot exempt itself from other laws.

    "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible" - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126
    Believe in yourself, not mythology.
    <x ><

  • Bhagavad
    Bhagavad

    Silentlambs' WT comment in his second-to-last paragraph reads:

    "We do not believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect."

    I was led to believe that the Watchtower organization is "theocratic," "spirit-directed." Their comment above contradicts that understanding. The phrase "human organization" seems to imply that they are divided, confused, and not any more worthy of consideration as purveyors of spiritual knowledge and Bible understanding than Roto-Rooter, Safeway or General Motors, for example.

  • deddaisy
    deddaisy

    "Suppose, for example, that a long time ago a 16 year old boy murdered a wordly person before he was baptized."

    Is this implying:
    1) that a 16 yr. old should not be held as responsible for his actions? If so, why did the 12 year old's lawyer attempt to convince the judge that this JW minor was "mature" enough to make her own medical decisions?

    2) that the life of a "wordly" person doesn't count?

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    Elsewhere,

    What laws are the Society's protocol violating?

    It seems to me that a religious institution that considers the Bible as its ultimate authority would see that its directives supercede worldly directives. Is there a footnote in Paul's letter that says the two witnesses procedure ought to be discontinued in the case of a child's accusation?

  • D8TA
    D8TA

    Cygnus,

    I'm a bit confused in the question itself, as to the "why" of it. Or perhaps a bit of clarity as to where you are going with this.

    Why would it be an issue if Bill Bowen believed whether he thought pro or con on what the WBTS opinion is to what the bible states for protocol?

    Now:
    If he did agree, he would of NOT started Silent Lambs. For he would of supported the WBTS view on judicial protocol.

    We are dealing with an organization with the mind set of: We have God(Jehovah) on our side, and everyone else is S.O.L.
    Now, we can't deny that, nor are we going to debate it since we both know of the written/spoken word from the WBTS.

    Of course the WBTS will believe in one way or another and justify, that they are following strict bible protocol..AS PER THEIR POINT OF VIEW.

    Have they proven beyond all reason and doubt that they are indeed "Jehovah's visible organization"? Nope. Why? Because there is no ABSOLUTE proof to back up such claim to the rest of the world. All we have is perception, opinion, and interpretation from the WBTS point of view on what is written in the Bible. How THEY see it.

    So yes, from their point of view, they can run things any way they see fit. Since THEY believe on what the bible states on such matters.

    Now we must ask: Do the Jehovah Witness have any exempt status when dealing with the rest of the "world". Answer:No.

    Why?
    Because there is no ABSOLUTE proof of the WBTS claims, I therefore have a right to contest their point. Not right by law, but by my existence as an individual. So does the next person.

    Now, there are practices within the WBTS that do serve a clear and present danger to the community within and OUTSIDE the WBTS. I myself am not concerned with the people within. Selfish? Yes, I admit, I am in that regard. Why? Because WBTS can, by the 1st Ammendment, practice internal judicial process. (Just want to clarify: On my own opinion and self application moral compass, I feel what they are doing with the victims within their community is HORRENDOUS!)

    Now we have the OUTSIDE community. Me. This is where if there is a pedophile is coming to my door (and please, let's not make this a "convicted" isssue, but take the Pandelo situation) the community does have the right to be notified as to such an individual trespassing on our PRIVATE property(and going near schools and public places etc). If the internal practices of the WBTS (does not notify the outside community there is pedophile engaged in door to door)endanger my child (nephew/neice etc.) then we have a seperate matter as to what the 1st Amendament states. If John Q. Pedophile has to report to local authority, so does Brother Q. Pedophile. Regardless of what point of view and whose point of view is of the Bible. Now we are talking the law of the land. Now we are talking outside community safety.

    Bottome Line:
    Does WBTS internal practices put the OUTSIDE community at risk? Yes.
    Do I have a right to gaurd against that risk? Yes.
    Do I have the right to expose the WBTS for this risk? Yes.
    Does the WBTS wilfull and knowingly harbor people who can harm the community? Yes.
    Does the WBTS report such individuals? Only in places where the law states that they MUST do. So Yes and No.

    Now We can debate matter of opinion:
    Should the WBTS change their internal judicial policy? My opinion: Yes.
    Should victims of pedophilia in the WBTS be under ANY sort of duress (big or small) if they report to authorities? My opinion: No.
    Should there be changes in the WBTS judicial system? My opinion:Yes.
    Should Godzilla spawn near N.Y. and crush the WBTS headquarters: My opinion? Well...you know that answer.

    D8TA

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