WTS says two witnesses requirement "not tr...

Had Enough

I haven't noticed this point posted anywhere yet so I apologize if I missed it and have posted it again.

This is posted on the official JW media website at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=/vnr/2122827332/819163.pdf

Brumley,an official "General Councel for JWs has stated outright that the two-witness policy is "simply not true". (I've bolded certain points below except for the title)

Here is the entire statement on that site:

Transcript of Video News Release
Philip Brumley, General Counsel for Jehovah's Witnesses
Application of "Two Witnesses" Principle
Mr. Brumley: While the assertion has been made that Jehovah's Witnesses take no action when an allegation of child abuse comes to the attention of the elders unless the accusation is verified by two separate witnesses, and that's just simply not true.
The elders are vitally concerned with the welfare of the congregation. And if even one credible allegation is made of child molestation, and that comes to the attention of the elders, they immediately investigate the situation, and they immediately take steps to see to it that the victim is protected. Now in addition to seeing to it that the victim is protected, the elders will meet with the accused and find out what he or she has to say about the situation. In those cases, they also contact our headquarters to receive any recommendations or advice that we may have. Where even one allegation is made of child molestation, steps are taken to see to it that the authorities are also involved.
Perhaps where the accusation comes up is in the setting of what we do internally as an organization. Now there are clear Scriptural mandates about keeping the congregation clean and undefiled. The elders work very hard to see to it that those who practice such things are not part of the organization. If an allegation is raised against a certain individual, elders will meet with that individual to see if he wishes to confess or see if he wishes to seek the help of the elders in any way.
If two separate witnesses raise an accusation against an individual, and if it is found that the practice is going on and he is unrepentant, then the individual is dismissed, or disfellowshipped, excommunicated, from the congregation.
The difference then lies in what we do with regard to legal requirements and protecting the victim. Those steps are taken even if only one individual raises an allegation of child molestation. On a separate matter, disciplinary steps are taken if two witnesses raise an accusation against an individual suspected of being a child abuser.

So again on paper they are stating the criteria is that they inform the authorities even on one allegation but the two-witness policy is required for disciplinary action (df'ing) to be taken.

If, according to the WTS, it has, for the past decade or so, had a vigorous policy of protection of an abuse victim in place, why would there be such a scandal being exposed now about victims being silenced by their elders because of not having 2 witnesses?

Obviously the elders don't seem to know about this "difference" Brumley describes.

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

crawdad2

hi brumley! and gov body

yes, the elders take action,......they listen to the case, and then they hand the little 5 yr old back to the abusing parent.

"the elders are 'vitally concerned' with the welfare of the cong"??... why then do they let the legal dept of the gov body take over? and tell them to hush it all up?........ do they really love god, or the gov body?

the elders work hard to see those who practice such things are not part of the org????????????
why then do elders disfellowship victims, and harbor pedophiles, like on dateline?
are you saying dateline was a fake?.... do your elders submit, when you tell them to hand the 5 yr old child back to the abusing parent?........ yes they do, they love the gov body!!!.... that's right!!!... they are instucted to call you, and get advise, like you just said,,,,,,,,, you did say ADVICE?!!!!......DIDN'T YOU???????

oh yes, the steps,,,,,,, haha, the steps of calling you, and getting your ADVICE.

dungbeetle

What a piece of crap this statement is.

they can say anything they want, but you heard the phone call Bill made to watchtower legal. "If he denies it, walk away."

The elders have made their investigation and taken their action to see that the victim is protected. There ya go.

there ya go.

"Brother child molester, is there anything to these 17 allegations of abuse from 7 different accusers?"

"No, they are all lying."

"Okay, Brother child molester, sorry to have bothered you."

That's their investigation. That's WT protecting the victim. That's Watchtower deciding that the practice is not going on, there is nothing to be repentant for.

Case dismissed. Congregation is clean.

Victim is disfellowshiped. Congregation is clean.

RUN WATCHTOWER RUN THE LAMBS ARE ROARING!!!

Bang

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit

Bang

I wonder does an "itself" bear witness with them?

middleman

Sorry to resurrect this dusty thread but does anyone have this video?..... since this article is not longer listed on that site.

avishai

Brumley is so full of shit. So is JR Clown.

hamsterbait

Before the Dateline and Panorama programs the advice was that if an allegation was made all the Elduhs can do is ask the accused is it true. if he denies it there are no scriptural grounds for action UNless two witnesses can corroborate the accusation.

At that time, it needed two witnesses to the same event. (strangely, a witless could be seen smoking on two occasions by DIFFERENT witnesses and this was accepted as testimony)

It is only since Silentlambs and others exposed this discrepancy, and they started having to pay out BIG TIME that they did anything about it.

Remember, in WT La La LAnd, Murder is less serious than being seen smoking with "worldlings". (see the now infamous "Murder Letter" to Elduhs in Florida)

HB

Lady Lee

I doubt anyone has that video. It was never accessible for download.

Perhaps they removes ot because they realized they were caught red-handed following the stupid 2-witness policy

blondie

http://www.jw-media.org/vnr/2122827332/819163.pdf

The transcript

sammielee24

Brumley,an official "General Councel for JWs has stated outright that the two-witness policy is "simply not true". (I've bolded certain points below except for the title)

Question.

When there is a trial or a question by judges or counsel for any defense involving victims of the WTS - why aren't we calling X-Elders to testify? As we all know and for which there is more than sufficient proof, current Elders will engage in theocratic warfare ie; lying to save the society. Any Elder who has left the organization and by his past position has a lot of knowledge of all of the situations as far as protocol , would be invaluable to a case.

Those XElders also have no reason to engage in theocratic warfare and under oath, will tell the truth of what they know.

Just wondering..sammieswife.

WTS says two witnesses requirement "not tr...

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