WT cultural imperialism?

by expatbrit 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  expatbrit

  Hi y'all:

  I've been thinking about Americans. Specifically about whether the WT, being an American dominated religion, forces American attitudes and culture upon other nations.

  Now, don't get me wrong, I'm NOT anti-American. Living in Canada I have a lot of contact with many Americans. Like people of any other nation, I like the vast majority of Americans I meet. I enjoy their upbeat attitudes and straightforward zest for life. I love winter trips to the southern states.

  But, like most non-Americans, I get concerned when American culture becomes overwhelming to local culture. Of course, a century ago the same was true of Britain (what goes around, comes around...).

  A couple of examples from the WT:

  1)The pressure to conform to American styles of dress and grooming, i.e.no beards, ties.

  2)Pressure on the more non-emotional and demonstrative cultures like Japan, Britain and Scnadinavia, to become more emotional i.e. the attitude that if men don't cry, there's something wrong with them.

  3) Insistence on using American-English spelling and phraseology in WT literature printed and circulated in the entire English speaking world.

  It irritates me even more when the WT enforces these things with their claim of being God's org. As if God cares whether I have a beard or not, or if I weep or not! Unfortunately JW's view even the smallest details of what they read and see illustrated in the magazines as gospel, which results in subtle but powerful pressure to conform to the GB's American-based attitudes.

  Any comments? Am I, in fact, a Brit with a shoulder chip? Anyone else feel this way?

  Expatbrit.

  Edited by - expatbrit516 on 25 February 2001 11:56:56
• 

  SixofNine

  Expat, I'm as american as apple pie and gunfire, and I say you are onto something.

  This is something I have been thinking about quite a bit lately, both from the angle you are looking at it, but also, from this point of view: I have been noticing that Americans seem to be way under-represented amongst the apostate community. Is this my imagination? Seems that the UK and OZ are taking the real lead in "leaving off the disgusting thing".

  Anyone else noticed this? I have to admit I have not done a survey or anything.

  But as far as the American mindset, and how it might affect both JW-dom and exJW-dom, I think this "american" saying says alot: "My Country right or wrong".

  Substitute "my religion" or, "Jehovahs religion" for, "my country", but keep the obstinate "right or wrong" part, and maybe you get a picture of the attitudes that have gone far in shaping this religion you gave me.
• 

  Grunt

  Be careful that you don't believe stereotypes that are not true. I don't think all British men are fops. Please don't think all Southern men are ignorant racists. How many of your male friends are prone to tears? It takes strong circumstances to bring that out in my friends. Death, agony on the part of a loved one, that sort of thing. Most of the troubled young men I deal with are far more prone to cause tears than to shed them.
  As for culture clashes, and the pushing of American Culture, what the Watchtower pushes is not American Culture by a long shot. It is an elitist brand of spritual dictatorship smacking of class structure almost so strict as to be like a caste system. You and I as "apostates" would be the untouchables in their eyes. I know Russell gleaned a lot of information from British sources and he being a Pensylvania Yankee himself, well, it just doesn't show much of my American Culture, which is Deep South. From the night an elder from New York (or northeast somewhere) via Miami tried to talk to me real hard and I told him I was real close to knocking him down and he'd best learn a different tone when talking to me, well, suffice it to say after he scuttled back into the hall like a rabbit I told myself it was just his culture and that I needed to be more humble and patient. The big clash with the Jehovah's Witnesses is between their lies and gibberish and truth. Some of the crap they write sounds like a victorian rabble rouser, "Keep pace with the Celestial Chariot and the Royal Rider!" Never heard anything like that anywhere in the USA from CA to CT or from MT to FL. Always remember the home address of these people is Brooklyn, but try not to judge the people from there too hard. I had a good friend in the Marines from Brooklyn and he didn't talk like that either.
• 

  Englishman

  6 O`9,

  This is quite an interesting thread. Correct me if I`m mistaken, but it seems to me that Expat is asking whether the American culture is more accepting of the WTBTS`s foibles because the organisation is intrinsically an American one.

  It appears to me that America is much more religious than, say, the UK. Author Bill Bryson (US) says in his book "Notes from a Big Country" that his home in New England is quiet and law abiding, but that for certain crimes the penalties are draconian. This seems to fit in with the way that the WTBTS treats its own "lawbreakers", a "once you are on the outside you are worthless type of mentality".

  The WTBTS mistake is in not adapting itself to what is acceptable in other countries, the disfellowshipping policy is regarded with disbelief amongst the UK public, who find it an incredibly loathsome practice, even worse than refusing blood. This is probably because the DF`ing policy has no "martyr value" whatsoever.

  The WTBTS`s failure to adapt to local customs is very strange; most Americans that I have met who are in the UK for the first time are eager to find out UK customs. Once they step outside the pricey London Marriott, they forget all about air-conditioning, quickly learn to say "Bloody hell" every other word, and generally enjoy themselves hugely. One American I met seemed amazed that he could drink as much beer as he could handle, he said that where he lived, Washington DC, I think, that he was restricted to 3 half-pintsin one session.

  I think that the cultural differences between the USA and Europe is possibly why the apostate movement has become so prevalent over here, particularly in the UK, where any type of authority is subject to derision. If that authority is also religious and from abroad, then the whole movement is on a loser.

  On a personal note, let me say that I much enjoy reading posts from the USA, some of the humour is superb.

  Englishman.
• 

  DannyBear

  Uncle Bruce addressed this subject once over at H20...if I remember he pointed out how presumptious the WTBS is when discussing its mandates from God. Uncle if I don't get this right...chime in will ya.

  In a nutshell, his point was that CTR and JR were very adamant about being chosen as the FDS. How convenient. Why do you suppose these two gents claimed such a 'god ordained' corner on the world of religious 'truth'? Who's to say the god of the bible didn't bless some little group of bible students, studying the scriptures on some remote prarie, forest,village, anywhere else in this wide world?

  Just because CTR had the business sense to start a massive publishing campaign, just because da judge had the hootzpah to Advertise, Advertise the message...coupled with a ready supply of 'slaves' to do his bidding (blairing phonograph records and loud speakers) up and down every thourhfare and doorstep, doesn't mean he/they had any corner on God's attentions or truths. It only confirms that these US businessman turned preachers..succeeded in getting their message out.

  Well let me see who else has accomplished similar Nike, McDonald's, Coca Cola, Pepsi, you name it...all originating in the USA. We are a nation of promoters and salesman...we love other people to love our stuff. Doesn't make our stuff any better neccessarily, just makes us better salesman.

  DannyBear
• 

  Thirdson

  Expat,

  As an English ex-pat I can add my own thoughts. I agree with the idea of the WTS American culture influence. I'm not too sure about beards and why this is such a big deal still. I always thought that the WTS aversion to beards was the attitude of the outside community to bearded JW ministers. As far a I know there is no ban on beards in most protestant denominations and I personally know or have met many American pastors, priests and bishops with beards. There is no ban on beards in the corporate world even IBM allows beards and casual dress. I guess the WTS dress codes are there because of the public nature of their work and that all members are in actality salespersons.

  I thought the "stiff upper lip" was going out of fashion in Britain anyway. Caring nineties (and oh-ohs) man could "give way to tears" on occasion.

  As for American English, I always thought that was a cost saving. Why bother to have it translated when most people English speaking people would get the gist of the message? But other American influence can be seen in the illustrations. In pictures of paradise why are the houses always timber framed with wood siding? And have you seen the barns? New England states and much of the northwern Mid-west have a German and Scandanavian farming influence and the tradition has been to paint houses white and barns red. Look at Watchtower illustrations in comparison. It seems to me that the prime real estate in the JW New World will be a plain in front of Mount Fuji where the lucky JW will build his modest American house (2500 sq ft) and his red barn.

  Even Kingdom Hall design is American. Quick builds in Europe look much the same as their American counterparts.

  I'll think of some others later.

  Thirdson

  'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
• 

  philo

  Hello Xpat n'all,

  Interesting and diverse viewpoints on this subject. Sorry I can't say that without sounding patronising. Anyway, I enjoyed reading your posts here.

  I find that whenever 'culture' comes up, a discussion can go any direction. It’s a difficult subject for me, BUT I will chip in all the same. I would not call it imperialism but cultural insensitivity. Imperialism is way too big a term for the insignificant WT Corporation.

  Is it significant that the WTS holds to the doctrine of 'community responsibility' or cultural reprehensibility? I think it might be. In order to feel good about the wholesale annihilation of the majority of mankind at Armageddon, as well as the flood, (even including more local judgements like Sodom etc) you need some heavy justification. This is achieved in WT doctrine primarily with the reaction to the WT preaching work (sheep and goats). But that is not quite enough moral authority even to many witnesses. Why? Many people say 'No thanks, I'm too busy", others learn enough about the 'truth' to fear what the priest will say (who may be socially influential). There are a host of grey areas, which do not provide a happy sense of justice in this matter.

  Individual witnesses can reply to this problem quite easily. They can say, "Jehovah will resurrect those who didn't get a fair chance." But the WT society can NOT just say that. The reason why not, is that they have to maintain a sense of urgency among the preachers. And if WT policy plainly stated that whoever missed 'the boat' automatically got a resurrection into a wonderful righteous New World, the preachers would lose all their urgency. Also, the question, "why kill them just to resurrect them back?" would then have to be taken very seriously. The preaching emphasis would probably start to change from quantity to quality (perhaps even encompassing genuine humanitarian good works).

  So what the WT does, to keep the status quo, is it blends both these doctrines, providing some sense of urgency AND some sense of justice. That sounds like they have been clever, but it's really more like hard work. The analogy I would use is a salad dressing (mixing oil and vinegar). You can shake the pot and serve the dressing and it's fine, but if you leave it alone in the pot for a couple of minutes, the liquids separate. And of course, close inspection will always show that the liquids have not mixed at all. The 'shaking of the pot' is the reams of dreary holy words which witnesses are suppose to incorporate into their lives. Sometimes the cultural reprehensibility is emphasised, other times they play up Jehovah's mercy and his 'seeing the heart'.

  This has been a long way round, in trying to account for WTS cultural insensitivity. Sorry about that. But the basic idea is that the WT cannot afford to be too sensitive to local cultures or it would lose 'urgency'. I have just realised that it would lose this in a number of ways, but I'll stick to this one here. If witnesses were not culturally a 'known quantity' as they are now, and there was appreciable diversity, it would be hard to imagine 'bad cultures'. Soon the doctrine of cultural reprehensibility would have to be buried, and along with it would go the sense of urgency to the preaching work.

  philo
• 

  expatbrit

  I'd just like to emphasise again that I'm not anti-American. In fact, I agree with Margaret Thatcher when she said that America is the most powerful force for freedom the world has ever known. (Bring back Maggie!)

  Re. the beards thing. According to my wife (a Canadian) the bias in mainstream society against beards is because of the association with biker gang types, Hell's Angels, that sort of thing.

  But a thought which occured to me: I should have mentioned in my original post that the WT attitudes often reflect a 1950's sort of American mentality (the decade when most of the GB were in their prime). So the WT is exporting a largely out-of-date kind of American culture.

  Also, I do not think it wrong for men to show emotion or to weep. What I object to is the idea that men must weep or they're not normal. The WT highlights that Jesus wept, and use it to pressure those that do not conform to this idea. In doing so, they merely force others to conform to a view currently fashionable (not 1950's)in America.

  Grunt: your points are well made and well taken. I try not to fall into the trap of negative stereotypes. My irritation is not with American characteristics, whether negative or not, but with the forcing of these characteristics upon other cultures by claiming God-given authority.

  I also agree with Englishman: I enjoy reading posts from America enormously.

  Expatbrit.

  Edited by - expatbrit516 on 25 February 2001 21:37:14
• 

  Grunt

  As one whose greatest literary hero might be Horatio Hornblower, who finds himself singing refrains from Brown Sugar and Lady Madonna, who finds solace in the phrases of Tennyson which that tell us that we can only trust that there is not even a worm that is cloven in vain or a moth that is shrivelled in a fruitless fire, who still mourns The Flower of England, cut down at the Somme, who, while hating the loss of American boys in a war that had nothing to do with us, still was glad of the relief it gave to England's side, and there is no use in bringing up Wellington, or the Falklands, well, I hope that we always share the willingness to fight with only blood, sweat and tears as our promised allotment in support of freedom and opposition to tyranny. To be short, we too know what it is like to be inundated by a culture that we love and yet which while familiar is sometimes almost overpowering and threatening. You know, the only people ever to have invaded and razed our capital are the British. Yet as recently as last week our pilots braved fire together to strike a common foe. As an American, I offer my sincere apologies to the world at large for the cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses which plays on the popularity of the "worldly" American Culture to push its own agenda. Also, I am not bragging, but I would have to say that I think we have as high a percentage of apostates as anyone. Sure the bums in Brooklyn are pushing the lie, but Franz (currently out of Ga. and who received succor in Alabama during his hardest trials) has dealt the strongest blow against them by any single apostate. I'd put our American Apostates from Franz down to COMF up against anyones!!! Of course by providing people like You Know and Fred to illustrate the Witnesses we do the world a favor also. Non-examples are good. I am using their defninition of the term apostate of course as I actually view anyone who puts themselves in as mediators [for all, men] as apostate in regards to the bible. Anyway, I am enjoying the thread and gratefull for this board and for the fact that it is open to all from around the world.
• 

  DannyBear

  Hello Grunt,

  Are you the one and the same SemperFi from H20? If so a hearty join the crowd of refugees. This is an excellent group!

  Glad to have your 'patriotic' and 'apostate' views to read.

  Danny