Raymond Franz

obiwan

Has anyone read the book crisis of conscience?I want to get it,but I would like to know if the information is helpful.

WOW It's a wide open world,use your
own thoughts.

L_A_Big_Dawg

Be prepared to have your socks knocked off your tootsies.

I'll grant you that the information is almost 2 decades old, but you'll get an insight into how things worked, and may still work in the Org.

Happy reading.

"That's me in the corner. That's me in the spotlight, losing my religion." REM

And thank God I lost my religion.

The Big Dawg

TweetieBird

I would say that most of the people on this board have read CofC. I highly recommend it and also it's companion, the Watchtower (oops, I meant) "In Search of Christian Freedom."

"It is not that I am afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it happens."

-Woody Allen-

Trotafox

Ray who? You mean the father of all ex-JW's? The guy the WT would like to see gone (permanently)? Yep.

Read it. Plus "In Search of Christian Freedom" by Raymond Franz.

Oh yes, it's helpful. So helpful the hair stands up on the necks of every Governing Body member every time a page is turned. Tee-hee.

Trot

Crisis of Conscience is a must read.
By the way, the information is not 2 decades old.
The 4th. edition is in the work, and the 3rd. already is updated to 1999.
In Search of Christian Freedom, also by Ray Franz is really helpful for those who want a relationship with God and Jesus, without the trappings of religion and dangerous sects.

thewiz

It's a good read. On a scale from 1 to 10, I would give it a 6-1/2

second time around
got <= 20 pages to go
it has been updated since, I have a 2000 ed.

also have
In Search of Christian Freedom
<= 400 or 500 pages to go

Now for my review:

I found the book has little self deprecation, and is duplicitous.

He also almost always puts himself in the light of the one-and-only "innovator/thinker/true bible reader/toots his own horn."

Rarely, if ever apologizes for any damage he caused when he was a Jdub (it was everybody else's fault).

Somehow holds with esteem Ted Armstrong's group and the journal, The Plain Truth because they admited that they were mistaken about this and that, and not sticking to the teachings of Christ, blah, blah, blah. -The net result in both cases is lives wastfully spent and ruined. So what's the point he's trying to make.

Bitches about how they railroaded him for Apostacy/association and then proceeds to list out a bunch of stuff (in the 2nd? to last chapter) that clearly, if compared against the WTB&TS teachings, makes him an Apostate.

It's not that I don't believe him (and I don't believe EVERYTHING he says), but if many here say that members of the GB either good or bad liars, what do you think Mr. Raymod Franz was for 40+ years, and 9 years on the GB?

He was there at the time I made my fateful decision not to pursue college for all the maladjusted reasoning pounded into my head by a society he was part "leader" of. I haven't removed him from my blame list and never will.

you want an honest review? I think I gave you one.

IslandWoman

Thewiz,

I agree with some of what you posted. We all must live as we see fit. In a perfect world the Ray Franz we would like to love would have left when Br. Dunlap was disfellowshipped, because Ray Franz already knew what later he was to tell us about. In a perfect world with a perfect story and a perfect man, he would have left the Organization when they unmercifully trampled his friend.

But this is the real world, and there are no fairy tales, and no fairy tale like people!

IW

dungbeetle

What Island Woman says and may I add that NONE of us are blameless.

As human beings, we know right from wrong.

BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.

one

thewiz,

*** "members of the GB either good or bad liars, what do you think Mr. Raymod Franz was for 40+ years, and 9 years on the GB?"

He was, as he said, one of a whole bunch "VICTIM OF VICTIMS"

*** "He was there at the time I made my fateful decision"

So what? the policy (college) was in effect long before he became part of the GB.

Do you think he had a magic wand or something, get real.

*** "you want an honest review? I think I gave you one."
I agree, but you still can review you review, wearing HIS shoes.

IslandWoman/ dungbeetle,
*** "In a perfect world the Ray Franz we would like to love would have left when Br. Dunlap was disfellowshipped,"

Easier said than done, weight all the factors if you can... BTW he was/is married. Islandwoman i imagine you dont want your husband (?)to take decisions in a hurry even without consulting you, right?

Can any of us write a book?

obiwan,
since you are 'new'... was your original question honest?

We may diarect you to specific chapters if we knew what you are looking for, honestly.

Where did you learn about the book?

What do you know about the book so far?

larc

Brother Wiz,

You didn't go to college? Well neither did Ray Franz. Can you imagine what an intellect he would have been, if he had? So, brother Wiz, don't blame brother Franz for your lack of a college education. It was not his fault.