Was Jesus a real person?

by Coded Logic 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Coded Logic

  Why didn't Jesus ever write anything? Why are there no letters to Jesus? No painting of Jesus from that time? No busts or sculptures? Why does Matthew say Jesus was born before 3BC while Luke says Jesus was born after 7AD? Why can't they even agree on what decade he was born in?

  
  Why do Jesus brothers, whom he supposedly grew up with, James and Jude, never mention they are Jesus brother? Why do they never speak of him as a man but only as a spirit?
  
  Why it it that Paul, a man who never met Jesus, is the founder of the Christian church?
  Why are all the Gospels written by anonymous authors in third person? Why don't we have a single first hand account of Jesus?
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  smiddy

  Moses supposedly wrote 5 books , led the then Jewish nation out of Egypt , 40 years later they were about to enter the promised land. (They must have covered about 40 miles every 10 years)

  Jesus ? No books , No deliverance of Jew or Gentile after 2000 years.

  smiddy
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  Crazyguy

  There's a old gnostic writing that seams to indicate that there may have been a guy but there's know way to be sure. This writing seams to be from family member's and again like you said both James and Jude do not speak of Jesus as the son of god.
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  opusdei1972

  I believe Jesus was a real person. However, it is difficult to know which were his words, because the Four Gospels are 90% unreliable. So, I believe that there was jew called Jesus, who died by crucifixion, and his disciples propagated the doctrine that he resurrected. Also, they tried to find support for this doctrine in OT passages taken out of context.
  
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  opusdei1972

  Why didn't Jesus ever write anything? Why are there no letters to Jesus?

  
  

  Because he thought he would not die in that way. So, his disciples had to justify it by using the Old Testament.

  Also, his early disciples thought that Jesus would return soon, during his generation, but it did not happen. Then, the next generation felt the necessity to write about him. But they compiled contradictory traditions about him.
  
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  cofty

  I am no longer convinced that there was an historical Jesus.

  The earliest writings about him come from Paul who has no interest at all in historicity. Richard Carrier wrote a new book last year called "On the HIstoricity of Jesus - Why We Might Have Reasons For Doubt". I think it will be on my christmas list.

  Start at 25 minutes...

  ...
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  Phizzy

  I don't think as far as I am concerned I am bothered one way or the other as to whether there really was a guy the Mythology is based upon. It is a bit like debating if Robin hood really existed.

  What I am convinced of is that the Gospels and the other N.T writings that mention him are all myth, and should be read as such. This is not to say they are uninteresting to me, but I view them as myth, and read them as I would the stories of Robin Hood, or perhaps a better example, King Arthur.
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  Half banana

  The literary character of the NT Jesus, his activities, words and associations had been used as the saviour figure from Bronze Age antiquity. To be brief; why was the virgin mother of the Egyptian saviour and god-man also called Meri (Isis Meri) and his step father called Sep (as in Joseph)? Why did this ancient saviour have 12 disciples, walk on water, heal the sick, cure lepers and even raise his friend Lazarus? The answer is because he was the saviour figure in a folk tale at least two thousand years BC. Why did Jesus walk on water? Because he walked on water as the morning Sun does rising over the sea, the saviour figure was a Sun god and the son of a Sun god, born at the end of mid-winter solstice and ascending to heaven each year at the spring equinox and dying again on the shortest day. Why were oxen in the stall where the saviour was born and why are all god-men saviours born of a virgin? Because they are references to ancient astrology (Taurus the bull and The Virgin) which system of belief preceded Catholic Christianity and remains the normative structural myth beneath most religious thought on this planet.

  The truth does not need defending, it can stand on its own feet. However to promote a big lie, enormous amounts of propaganda and money is required just like the Roman Church had. They had the power and political will to promote the Jesus story and they had the information control to exclude the pagan origins of the Christ figure...and they did so very successfully.

  Was Jesus a real person?...Since when have fictional characters from pagan stories started to come off the page and become real people?

  (haven't listened to Carrier yet)
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  FusionTheism

  The most important question to ask first, is this:

  How many documents do we have today that still exist from around 29 AD to 33 AD when Jesus was supposed to be doing His ministry?

  That's the only time period we would expect to find anything contemporary from Jesus.
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  Half banana

  To my knowledge we have none relevant to the case in point. The Romans ignored him...imagine ignoring a man who could raise the dead!

  The Romans knew about christ cults though and found them a nuisance and made reference to them but not to Jesus. Josephus ignored him although later Jesus-Christians doctored his words as if he had mentioned him. The only documentation which would have given testimony would have been first hand contemporary reports...they don't exist.