June JW Broadcast - Jehovah's & Jesus' names Are Interchangeable! (page 3)

sir82

They overlap.

Well, something is sure overlapping on him.

Dude seems to never have said no to an offer of "a little more biscuits & gravy?"

FayeDunaway

Searcher, don't bother. The guy is a witness drone. A robot. No mind of his own. 'Must. Defend. The. Truth. Beep!'

leaving_quietly

Actually, both johnamos and Searcher have a point. Here's the issue the way I see it:

The WT organization gets mad at "Christendom" because, by and large, they DON'T exalt the name Jehovah (or Yahweh or YHWH)

"Christendom" gets mad at the WT organization because, by and large, they DON'T exalt the name Jesus (or Yashua or Yeshua or whatever other pronunciation there is)

And, they're both right. And they're both wrong.

The WT organization makes such a HUGE deal out of the name "Jehovah" that they forget this COMMANDMENT:

"Indeed, this is his commandment: that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us a commandment." - 1 John 3:23

And it's something people would be judged on:

"Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God." - John 3:18

"I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God." - 1 John 5:13

I can't recall the last time the WT organization admonished anyone to have faith in Jesus NAME. Faith 'on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice', yes, but faith in his name? It is a rare thing to see in any publication.

At the same time, as johnamos pointed out, God's name is equally as important. There should be no reason to not exalt both names. But the WT organization says Christ is not to be exalted like that, and that IS the problem. What does the Bible really teach?

"Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." - John 5:23

"For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name." - Phil 2:9

(SIDE NOTE: Phil 2:9 is somewhat misleading in the NWT. The phrase"superior position" is not in the Greek. Neither is is the word "other". The correct rendering would be more like "Therefore, also, God highly exalted [or, elevated] him and graciously [or freely, or kindly] granted him the name that is [or, which is] above every name [or, above all names, or, above every kind of name].")

You will notice many times in the NT how Paul gave glory to both, by saying, "God through Christ" or "God through Jesus Christ" or "God through our Lord" or other similar phrasing. The point is that we should not be going to one extreme or the other. Both God AND the Christ are exalted. Both should be recognized. Both names are equally important.

johnamos

I enjoyed your post :) I would just mention that in the following 3 scriptures that you cited you should have started your underline with the word ‘faith’ and understand that it is saying to have faith in that name…and that name means “Jehovah Is Salvation”

"Indeed, this is his commandment: that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us a commandment." - 1 John 3:23

"Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God." - John 3:18

"I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God." - 1 John 5:13

Three more random scriptures showing what to have faith in but they are different from the above saying to have faith in Jesus’ name, which is another way of saying have faith that “Jehovah Is Salvation”

Num 14:11 Finally Jehovah said to Moses: “How long will this people treat me without respect, and how long will they not put faith in me (Jehovah) for all the signs that I performed in among them?

Mark 1:15 and saying: “The appointed time has been fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has drawn near. Be repentant, YOU people, and have faith in the good news.”

John 6:35 Jesus said to them: “I am the bread of life. He that comes to me will not get hungry at all, and he that exercises faith in me (Jesus) will never get thirsty at all.

And again what Jesus says to do:

Mark 11:22 And in reply Jesus said to them: “Have faith in God.

leaving_quietly

Absolutely, johnamos.

Understand that I am not disputing the use of the name "Jehovah" (though I'd prefer just YHWH or Yahweh or even Jahveh (the last two admittedly closer to the original pronunciation than "Jehovah", but I digress...), nor am I disputing all that Christ represents, that of being God's son, being anointed BY God, being exalted BY God, or anything like that. My point is simply to say: there is a balance that most of us are guilty of, that of favoring Jehovah VS Jesus instead of, more properly, favoring Jehovah AND Jesus equally. Remember, God may take out a people for HIS name, but those same people are declared righteous in Jesus' name with God's spirit.. (1 Cor 6:11).

BTW, your last passage reminded me of another:

"Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me" John 14:1

I like that you pointed out what the name of Jesus means "YHWH is salvation". But it does come full circle in the Bible. True, YHWH is salvation, but how?

"If we accept the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. Because this is the witness God gives, the witness that he has given about his Son. 10 The person putting his faith in the Son of God has the witness within himself. The person not having faith in God has made him a liar, because he has not put his faith in the witness given by God concerning his Son. 11 And this is the witness, that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in his Son. 12 The one who has the Son has this life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this life." 1 John 5:9-12

My point is, it should not be a Jehovah vs. Jesus thing as so many make it out to be. God's plan for salvation is by/through is Son. They are BOTH necessary. And the scriptures make it very clear that BOTH of their names are important.

Strangely, what we don't find in the NT / Greek scriptures is any argumentation about whose name is more important. What we do find is what I've been saying. Both are important.

goingthruthemotions

one thing that makes me laugh at the brainwashing times is when the sheeple replace Jehovahs name for Jesus's name in there comments.

i am in awe sometimes, i have pointed this out to my wife, but it just goes right over her head or she just doesn't want to see it for what it really is.

i am not sure, but one thing for sure.....it sucks

Tenacious

It is clear to me and anyone else with common sense that the WTS says to put faith in Jehovah in order to be saved (confirmed just 2 weeks ago at Sunday public talk). No mention at all of Jesus or the necessity of putting faith in Jesus in order to be saved.

Johnamos, you can argue and side with the WTS but what is pronounced from the platform is Jehovah IS the savior period. Read the following passage in Daniel:

(Daniel 7:13, 14). . . “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! With the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

And if Jesus is ruling now (WTS 1914 teaching) Jesus should be at the helm now per God. End of story, period.

RichardHaley

Next to J it is "GB this and GB" that in comments, talks and prayers at the KH and in the mags. Jesus comes in a dismal 3rd. Such a supposed all important name and it has been reduced to "J."

I can remember a time not to long ago when calling someone a "JW" was unacceptable. Proper terminology was "One of Jehovah's Witnesses" not "a Jehovah Witness" either.

J...what kind of witness is that? For all you know it could stand for Jackass.

johnamos

41 I (Jesus) do not accept glory from men…43 I have come in the name of my Father,

16 Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.

Therefore Jesus said: “When once YOU have lifted up the Son of man, then YOU will know that I am [he], and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things.

because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.

However, as many as did receive him (Jesus), to them he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name;

To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

9 because God assigned us, not to wrath, but to the acquiring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Searcher

JOHNAMOS - you quote John 17:3 from the old NWT. The wording has changed now,

You quote the reasoning from the "Reasoning" book which still preaches the false prophecy about people living in 1914 being alive to see Armageddon! (see intro for "Last Days")

This is literature published by a clergy which tells you that your own death wipes out your sins - (based on their spurious, literal interpretation of Romans 6:7) thereby imputing that Christ's ransom was unnecessary.

You cannot in all good conscience supplant your own reasoning for their perversions of scripture?

Otherwise, why are you disobeying God's faithful slave by being here and associating with alleged "apostates?"

Are you pioneering and counting time?

Then it's "polluted" service, according to your priesthood in Brooklyn.

June JW Broadcast - Jehovah's & Jesus' names Are Interchangeable!

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