What is Faith? (page 2)

Introspection

I'd like to offer another way of understanding faith. Of course, as Jan has pointed out you can use the word in different ways, and I will use the word in different ways as well. But I believe that for most people, faith is a clinging to the idea of knowing. I want to point out it is only the idea of knowing, not actual knowing. The opposite of that is aversion toward the idea of knowing. Though this is rare, (or rarer) it does exist. I see no good reason to go to either extreme. As far as I'm concerned, it is fine to not know, you don't need to go so far as to not want to know, and at the same time it does no good to pretend you know when you in fact do not know. It's easy to see if we lean in either direction rather than being completely honest - just see how you feel when any of your ideas or beliefs are challenged, if you start feeling a sense of loss, or that someone is trying to take something away from you. On the other hand, if you really have the attitude of "don't know and don't want to know", you may feel like pushing it away when someone offers something for you to consider.

Amazing

The word 'faith' has true meaning, unless we get into philosophical discussions where we cannot even determine the meaninmg if the word 'is' as President Clinton seemed to also have trouble defining.

Faith is confidence and trust in something or someone. I have faith that if my house is burning, the firemen will come and put out the fire. Faith is built on expereince. This is essentially what the Apostle Paul was saying in Hebrews 11, that faith is assured by evidence ... though not seen evdience ... and unfortunately, the Watchtower as usual botches up the translation. The King James version says it better at Heb 11:1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Though not seen, I have faith in many things in science, and the physical world: For example, I have never seen electricity ... but, I have enough scientific evidence to know what it is, what it does, and I have faith that if I apply certain scientific electrical theory, I will get the same result every time ... my faith is built on confidence and trust through experience and other evidence.

The problem with God and Faith is this: It is not whether "faith" is properly defined or has true meaning ... but rather has and does God act in a way that shows he deserves my faith in him. That is the central issue I am trying to solve.

Edited by - Amazing on 14 June 2002 12:41:16

funkyderek

According to Ambrose Bierce's Devil's Dictionary:

F AITH

n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

RR

Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen. Heb 11:1

JanH

My vote for Ambrose Bierce. I used that one as .sig some time back.

- Jan

Double Edge

F AITH
n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

First of all, that is ONE person's definition...the writer/editor. But, if we were to use it, I think the key word is KNOWLEDGE.

IMHO there are probably two scenerios:

1) if there's no God, thus no 'spiritual realm' everything is moot...you're right...Life sucks, we're screwed, get over it.

2) if there is a God, and man has a spirit and there is a spiritual realm, than the KNOWLEDGE of a 'physical' nature would be very hard pressed to prove something of a 'spiritual' nature. However, if this second scenerio is correct...than spirit speaking to spirit would be a KNOWLEDGE between the two, but almost unfathomable in a physical world. Try to explain an atom to a scientist in the 1870's. It's there, but can't be physically tested or proved at that time with the limited KNOWLEDGE.

joannadandy

I think one of the major things about faith that hasn't been mentioned yet is blind acceptance.

I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, I have faith the rain will eventually stop...etc. Things you witness day in and day out, or have been told day in and day out, begin to be your faith. This doesn't mean your faith can't be wrong. I think it is different from belief in that it has that feverish feeling to it. Faith is so much more commanding than to say I believe, believe sounds like there are loopholes somewhere.

But then again, I agree with Jan-Faith is a word like Love, Literacy, Truth, Honor. You'll never get the same definition from any two people.

Mackin

Thanks for all your excellent replies. Very interesing!

ItsJustlittleoldme

I believe faith (in the spiritual/religious connotation) would be a 'faith' in the human spirit..

* I have faith that people are inherently good, and I try to treat people as I would like to be treated.. (the golden rule, I guess)...

* I have faith in LOVE (not JW love that is seriously limited in scope and only given under certain circumstances and conditions, but real love where you want to see the other(s) grow for their good, not yours). I have faith that I am loved the same way that I love. (Sometimes this takes a very big leap of faith!!! but I do it, because I believe you will only find the kind of love that you exhibit yourself -- You cannot expect to receive it without giving it in the first place (although I do believe in undeserved kindness) -- And I'm happy to report that I have found and continue to search for it in others every day)

* I have faith that love is the most powerful force to us humans, and it really does conquer all...

* I have faith that Jesus Christ died for us so we may understand and know the above (By showing us by his loving example that this all powerful love can and does exist if you honestly look for it, and give an honest effort to make sure you act that way, so others can find it in you)

The main reason I am drawn to this board, and the great people here is because I believe in these principals with all my heart and sole, and now that I've met a few JW's it is quite evident that they don't have any knowledge of love, only of conditional acceptance.. I believe that there are JW's out there that have 'real love' and even show it as best they can within the confines of their rules and laws that they must obey, but they are trained to be 'cold-hearted' and that just breaks my heart...

Every time I think it, it makes me cry to think that the people to claim "You will know my diciples by the love they have for one another" have no clue what that really means, and it hurts me even more to think the ones that aren't cold-hearted (I'm an optimist, so I think the majority don't naturally have a cold heart -- I've seen proof of this from at least one witness) are having their own humanity and human spirits broken, taken away from them.. The truest and worst form of slavery!

I have faith that in some way I can make a difference, I know my sole cries out for them so badly that I must try something... For I have faith that real love is the most powerful force known to man, and to walk away from these people who are so in need of feeling and seeing real love would be a sin against my faith.

signgirl

Apparently George Michael has Faith, he said it all.....you gotta have faith, faith, faith.

Hi there Mackin, I havent been here for a while but Beck said you'd been putting a bit into this site. You sure got people thinking. Even me, I dont know what I believe anymore. I know one thing is for sure, I dont have faith in the JW org like I used to. They are like the blind leading the blind....hey its a form of blind faith!!

I better go and get filled with some more spirit (red).

What is Faith?

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