I left JW's of my own accord but if I was still with them, I would definately be viewed as an apostate for saying things like the following.
......
Is Jesus the Father? No.
Is Jesus God? In a way yes but to be more accurate, it was the Word that was born into the man we know as Jesus, that (or who) is a part of God.
Jesus is at the right hand of God now, i.e. he is not the Father.. in fact when all things are done, Jesus hands over the authority that was given to him, back to God, his God.
The "beginning" at John 1:1 is not the beginning of the Word, but it is reference to where the story starts in the book of John. Yes, the Word was with God "in the beginning" because he has always been with the Father.
John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that has been made."
The lack of a definite article at John 1:1 doesnt show that the Word was "a god" as JWs say, but it does show that theres a difference between the Word and the Father. The Word comes from the mind of God (the Father) by the breath (the Holy Spirit). The Word is spirit but not a creature like "a god" but is part of God who is spirit. God is spirit but at the same time is a living person.
God has a mind = the Father
He has breath = the Holy Spirit
He can speak = the Word
Psalm 33:6 (NKJ) "By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all the hosts of them by the breath of his mouth."
But these are not the Trinity because for a start, they are not equal to each other. Is your breath equal to your mind? No, but without breath you would not be alive. Is your word equal to your mind? No, but when you speak we are listening to your mind. Its the same with God and when God speaks, we are listening to God's mind through the Word by the Holy Spirit, the breath. (Breath.. Jesus breathed on someone and said "receive Holy Spirit.")
The Father is a spirit but (obviously) not a creature. The Word is also of the same divine nature and is spirit.. and even Jesus said "the words I speak to you are spirit", because Jesus having the Logos in him, spoke the Word.
Then the bible repeatedly tells us that God is invisible and cannot be seen literally.. this is because God lives beyond this universe that he created and is like nothing we can imagine. You agree? But that leaves us with some questions..
If God is invisible, who was it that spoke and walked with Adam in the garden? If God is invisible who was it that lead Israel out of Egypt in "a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night"?? If God is invisible, who handed the commandments to Moses?
Well, the bible gives us the answer and says that "the law was transmitted through angels" Acts 7:53 and Gal 3:19 This does not mean however, that the angels are God. What it does mean, is that they represent and speak for God. In other words, when an angel speaks Gods message it is by the Word, the Logos.
Take a look at Exodus 3:2-6
"There the ANGEL of the Lord appeared to him (Moses) in flames of fire from within the bush. So Moses thought, "I will go over and see this strange sight why the bush does not burn up." When the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!" And Moses said "Here I am!."
Do not come any closer, God said, "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground." Then God said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob."
There we see that it was an angel who spoke from the burning bush, yet he is also referred to as God! So who was "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob"? It was Jehovah, yet it says that it was an angel!!!
The angels have a different way of looking at things than we do, so to them it is God who speaks when they pass a message on to us. The angels are messengers and as far as they are concerned, it is the source of the message who is speaking, not the angel through whom the message came.
The truth of the matter is that God has never appeared on this earth in person, but its always been through creatures like the angels and of course Jesus. God in person lives outside the universe but as an extension of the Father (who is the mind) the Word comes through tangible creatures of this universe. We were made in the image of God in more ways than one and just as your words are an extension of your mind the Word is an extension of God's mind, the Father.
Although the angels are individuals they also have the mind of God, who is spirit (unlike the angels who are 'spirit' creatures). The essence of the mind of God is love and this is what unites the angels together in a very unselfish way, not wanting the credit for themselves for what they do as they represent God.
Now comes the shocking bit..
The angels are collectively, the Elohim. Have a think about it.
I need to qualify what I just said, so there will be at least another page when I get the time.. So if anyone wants to reply, can they wait until I written some more please?
John
Edited by - jed459 on 18 June 2002 1:54:4