Sifted As Wheat???

by VioletAnai 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  plmkrzy

  Of course there is a view of the bible that states that God wanted Satan to show his true colours, which is why he created man in the first place.

  LT.. Isn't that intrapment? Thats against the law!LOL
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  You Know

  The account you have in mind had to do with what Jesus said to Peter on the night of his arrest. The demand that Satan made speaks to the very heart of the issue that the serpent raised in Eden, as well as what he stated in the case of Job. Given the fact that God's own angels defected in large numbers, and that the chosen nation of Israel constantly fell into apostasy and idolotry, Satan's demand was not totally unreasonable. He assumes, and with some justification, that all creatures are inheriently unfaithful and that all that is needed is a little hardship and adversity and their faith and trust in God will be exposed as mere religious sentiment. Indeed, the Devil was surely aware of the fact that the apostles were arguing among themselves about which one of them was the greatest up until that very night. That the issue had to do with their faith and loyalty is made apparent by Jesus' further comments to Peter when he said: "But I have made supplication that your faith does not give out."

  So, here were these men that Jesus chose to be the foundation of an organization that was instituted to destroy Satan and replace him as ruler and that would always be loyal to God's principles. The demons had to be thinking: "Fat chance!" Why are the 144,000 any more qualified to be rulers then the angels that failed? Don't you want to know? I mean, we can see what kind of government the demons have provided, seeing that the world surely reflects the character of its demonic overlords. They have presided over a planet in perpetual chaos and misery, marked by unending wars, starvation, poverty, greed, and wickedness of all kinds. So, why should we automatically accept new rulers who haven't been tested? More to the point, why should God install untested rulers? That's not reasonable. And that's why God has asceeded to the Devil's demand.

  Obviously, the very same issues are still very much alive today, as are the demons who still are actively sifting Jehovah's sons as wheat. The existence of the apostate movement, which is headed up by wicked individuals who at one time were anointed sons of God, speaks to the fact that Satan has had a fair bit of success in his sifting operation. Daniel's prophecy of the king of the north indicates that "Some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work.." What we have seen of late coming from Bethel, like the NGO debacle, for example, appears to me to be a fulfillment of that very prophecy.

  Part of Jesus' response to Peter indicated that the apostles themselves would be stumbled, but that they would recover, that their faith would not give out, as Jesus prayed that it wouldn't. But, that's why Jesus said of Peter: "when once you have returned," which apparently was in reference to Peter's denying Christ, which was itself a fulfillment of the prophecy in Zechariah that foretold that the Shepherd would be struck and the sheep scattered. That prophecy by the way has a final application. That's why we can anticipate that the organization is going to get laid low in the immediate future. Only the faithful will return to Jehovah and get the reward. That final violent sifting will remove all the faithless and corrupt individuals from top to bottom out of Jehovah's organization and leave only those who truly are meek and lowly before Jehovah. / You Know

  Edited by - You Know on 25 June 2002 8:30:4
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  LittleToe

  Plm:
  Entrapment - I don't see any rules against that in the bible.
  Maybe it was a choice of that or double jeapordy

  YK:

  And that's why God has asceeded to the Devil's demand

  It is? What is your scriptual evidence that God has ever done anything that the Devil has demanded of him?

  That prophecy by the way has a final application

  It does? Where does it say that?

  Jehovah's organization

  Which one would that be then, since so many lay that claim?
  Surely not that off-the-wall one, that we all were once a part of?

  Edited by - LittleToe on 25 June 2002 10:32:22
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  Dawn

  the prophecy in Zechariah that foretold that the Shepherd would be struck and the sheep scattered. That prophecy by the way has a final application. That's why we can anticipate that the organization is going to get laid low in the immediate future.

  Again I will agree in part and disagree in part. I agree that Christ's "organization" will be scattered - but I do not see that the prophecy applies only to JW's. It seems clear to me that Jesus was speaking of Christians - this applies to all faithful Christians who will face hardship during the time that the AntiChrist/Beast/False Prophet trio is in power.

  So often the WTBS takes prophecies such as these and applies it to themselves - I don't see the biblical basis for this.
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  crawdad2

  hi "you know"............... what makes you think that the watctower bible and tract publishing company is "god's organization"???? matt 24:24........... korah claimed he was god's organization too!!!!!
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  You Know

  little toe

  It is? What is your scriptual evidence that God has ever done anything that the Devil has demanded of him?

  Book of Job and the account in Luke where Jesus said that he made supplication for Peter that his faith wouldn't give out.

  It does? Where does it say that?

  Zechariah 13:7-9

  / You Know

  Edited by - You Know on 25 June 2002 19:22:42
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  plmkrzy

  "Some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work.." What we have seen of late coming from Bethel, like the NGO debacle, for example, appears to me to be a fulfillment of that very prophecy.

  "Some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work.." If you used this same quote in reference to the Catholic Church then there would be a good chance the entire inhabited earth would follow the meaning.

  I'm not even suggesting that I think the Catholic church is the true religion I'm only making a point regarding "ODDS" if you can follow that much.

  The WORLD is not aware of whats going on with the WTBTS. You can ask everyone you run into on the street or in a supermarket what their views are regarding everything and anything to do with the WTBTS and MOST people will say, "Whats that? Oh don't they have something to do with the Jehovahs?"