BUSh Declares Our RIGHTs come from GOD! (page 3)

IslandWoman

The United States was not founded by atheists. Many of the founding fathers found fault with organized religion and its passion for control. This was what they attempted to exclude from government: the control of religion upon government and use of religion by government. The government in their view was not to sanction or establish one religion over the other. But they were still believers in God and some did attend church regularly.

Separation of church and state did not mean separation of God and state.

Bush mentioned in his remarks that the Declaration of Independence supported his view, it does.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...."

IW

Double Edge

Forcing a nationwide pledge

Nobody is FORCED to say the pledge.....and hasn't for the past 10-15 years since we've become a bland, 'politically correct' society. We're now lukewarm at best and everyone and their brother has become drama queens in playing the 'victim.' In fact, I feel like sueing this board because it's made me bring out my emotions and I shouldn't have to be traumatized like this... ok, everyone...cough it up... I DEMAND payment for my suffering....

Double Edge

"If it means CHANGING OUR CONSTITUTION then so be it"

Heeellllooooo! Don't make it sound sooooo sinister. Our Constitution has been changed numerous times through the years....they're called AMENDMENTS...and a President can't do it, only States, and it takes 2/3'rds of them.

Gopher

Double Edge,

You cut off my quote. Here it is, in its entirety:

Forcing a nationwide pledge to contain "under God" is not liberty.

I didn't say anyone was forced to say it. But if you do say it, the wording "under God" is enforced by the 1954 Act of Congress.

Anyhow, I guess we're in a time of war, and as long as that is true (who knows, the war on terror could go on for 1000 years), the minority will be coerced to go along with the majority.

If a God-neutral pledge is bland, so is every compromise made in the interest of fairness between parties to any dispute. To me, it's what you do for your country apart from mouthing a "pledge" that is the exciting part. We do have a lot exciting opportunities for people in this country, and for that I am glad.

Double Edge

Gopher:

Two days ago, there was no issue...people went about their lives, kids went to school saying the pledge or not saying the pledge....whatever their conscience dictated to them. To me, the issue isn't about a pledge or whether it says "under God" or not, it's the continual chipping away at our heritage until there will be nothing left to remember, because it will become politically incorrect to articulate or print. The pledge itself is over 110 years old, in it's current form, almost 50. There are certain things that are handed down to succeding generations that reflect the goodness and the 'ideals' of this Nation. It seems that everyone has a chip on their shoulder about something...why wasn't this board 'alive' two days ago about the pledge? Because it wasn't an issue that bothered anyone...and now, just because a father doesn't want his daughter to listen to the pledge he has to create turmoil in a nation that up until two days ago could care less.

You know....several people, including myself are against 'stars', it offends us....and I know we're a minority, but I don't think they belong in our country's flag (I'm not too crazy about the colors, either...they need to be changed to a 'neutral' color, that will please everyone). I think I'll take it to the 9th Circuit Court, I know they'll see it our way because we're offended and we're a minority.

Edited by - Double Edge on 27 June 2002 21:14:0

Sangdigger

Whats all this about a "God neutral pledge" and how that wouldnt offend anyone. As far as i can see, it shouldnt offend anyone. Since there are many gods, a hindu, muslim or jew shouldnt be offended, since everyone has a god of some sorts. Even an athiest has a god. It's just in a different form.

And as already stated, NO ONE has to say the pledge. Political correctness makes me puke. Not that im a big bush fan. in fact, i think its a little hypocrytical for political leaders to jump on the bandwagon on this issue, acting like they're defending God himself, when theyve been so passive on other issues the bible clearly condemns.

When the constitution was written, as stated already, it specifically says, ALL RIGHTS ARE GIVEN BY GOD. The writers of this document were basically applying the principles of German Common Law. Wich teaches exactly this. However, in the early nineteenth century, many young men were educated at oxford and other english universitys, wich taught English Common Law. This teaches that ALL RIGHTS ARE GIVEN BY THE KING AND/QUEEN. A far cry different from German Common Law. These same men, brought back this form of law to America, and slowly the Govt. has assumed the position of God.

So even though German common law is stated in the constitution, we are and have been far from it for a long time.

Sangdigger

After reading my last post, i realized that the first part didnt make any sense. Sorry. I had the beatles playing on the computer, and my wife was jabbering about something. What i meant to say, is i think its absurd to change the pledge to keep from offending certain people. How far will it go?

Is anyone offended at people speaking spanish when they go to Mexico? They shouldnt be, because thats the language Mexico was founded on as a Country. The same way this country was founded on Christian principles.

Kenneson

Sanddigger,

It seems to me that the few have a right to offend the many, but heaven forbid if the many offend the few.

JT

At the beginning of our nation's Declaration of Independence, it is written.....

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

and ends with.....

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Whether a person believes in God or not, what the 9th Circuit Court did was to mess with our heritage. Don't get on Bush's case for standing up for what is written in The Declaration of Independence

#########

What is most interesting about the above comment is the ref to "our heritage"

One can only wonder what a black slave who learned to read must have thought when he read such beatiful words only to be beaten for learning to read them-

I have often found the comment made by many that this country was "Built on Godly principles" to be almost a sales slogan your know like ADVERTISE ADVERTIST THE KING AND THE KINGDOM

nice words but kinda hollow

this country was built on free labor. It is sorta like wt in my view-

but at least tell the story right, would it not have been more honest to say: "Yes we wrote some very powerful and beautiful words, but we really didn't mean it applied to everyone"

at least one would be honest instead of trying to paint a picture about the Early days of the USA that really isn't quite accurate. just my 2

ashitaka

all of this for two words

under God

and who cares? Let the bible thumpers say it, and the atheists can skip over it.

*sigh*

The world is full of infants.

ashi

BUSh Declares Our RIGHTs come from GOD!

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