The Case for Theism (page 18)

I think one of the challenges I have had is explaining to people that atheism is the response to one issue and is not the totality of who I am, what I believe, stand for, fight for, etc. Atheism is not a world-view. I am an atheist. I am also a secular humanist. I am also a skeptic. I am also a critical thinker. I am also a feminist. I am also Latino. I am also a person of color...and on and on. I think at times many people attach a number of world-views to atheism incorrectly.

Doltologist

StrongHaiku

I think at times many people attach a number of world-views to atheism incorrectly.

Not surprised given that we can't even agree amongst ourselves what the hell Atheism actually is!

Oubliette

StrongHaiku, well said.

Hell, it's all beliefs. The only thing that any of us can really know is that we exist. After that, it's all guesswork. We could be completely wrong about many, most, maybe even all of what we believe about our own existence.

I'm just sayin' is all.

crazyhorse

It amazes me how atheists can be SO certain that there is no God. At least having an agnostic view is plausible.

cofty

It amazes me how atheists can be SO certain that there is no God. - Crazyhorse

An objective consideration of the evidence will lead any rational person to the certain conclusion that the sort of gods that are worshipped do not exist.

If you are worrying about the possibility that some vague, undefined, first-cause who doesn't care or interact with the world might just possibly exist - why?

At least having an agnostic view is plausible.

The vast majority of people who call themselves agnostics just haven't considered the evidence.

Heaven

crazyhorse said: It amazes me how atheists can be SO certain that there is no God. At least having an agnostic view is plausible.

crazyhorse, this certainty comes from an understanding of religious claims, Biblical claims, a lack of evidence to support the claims, evidence that refutes the claims, and a study of history, archeology, geology, biology, etc.

As cofty has said before, one needs to define what is meant by 'god'. There have been so many different beliefs and so many different gods, especially in the various regions of the Earth (the Celts had their Gods, the Greeks had theirs, the Middle Easterners had theirs and so on). Many of the various pantheons have similar deities. The Israelites and Jews had Yahweh (El), the Greeks had Zeus. The Bible originates in the Middle Eastern pantheon.

As a child, I was taught that 'God' was Jehovah, also called Yahweh. I have since learned that prior to the name Yahweh, he was known as El. He is supposed to be our loving heavenly father. Yet when you read the Bible, he comes across as spiteful, vengeful, and quite hateful, particularly in the Old Testament. In the ancient middle East, when one tribe overthrew another tribe, the defeated tribe would typically adopt the victorious tribe's god. After all, their god must be weaker because they lost.

I have also learned that Yahweh was the Canaanite god of war and adopted by the Israelites and Jews. For me, this is not the type of god I want to be worshipping or following.

The Israelites at one point were polytheistic. Asherah was worshipped as the consort of Yahweh and 'the Queen of Heaven'. What happened to her? What has happened to all the other goddesses?The god Ba'al (Hadad) was also worshipped. He was the son of El.

As a child, I was taught that the Bible was the inerrant, true word of God. Therefore, it follows, that if there is even 1 fact in the Bible that can be disproven, then the claim that the Bible is inerrant is false. You need look no further than the book of Genesis. The order of creation is incorrect. There are many others I won't go into as this would be quite long.

So, after all this, I am wondering .... exactly which god are you referring to, what is it that you believe in, and what is the foundation or facts you can state to support this belief?

prologos

I am not crazyhorse, just crazy, but cofti asked: "If you are worrying about the possibility that some vague, undefined, first-cause who doesn't care or interact with the world might just possibly exist - why?"

It is not a worry at all, it is exciting to think that a possible creator exists and that our agnosticism amounts to the research yet to be done, after all, it stretches one's credulity to think that the universe that has stretched to possibly 45 billion light years is self-originating. If I had a fellow worker capable of that I would not worry, my life would be made, and it is! surprise.

The vast majority of people who call themselves agnostics just haven't considered the evidence. How do you know that? even Dawkins is 1,5% agnostic, and perhaps rising?
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cofty

our agnosticism amounts to the research yet to be done

Positing a magical answer makes further research superfluous. It is a non-answer.

prologos

a magical answer makes further research superfluous. It is a non-answer.

cofty. of course . but agnosticism, deism is not an answer, it is/implies an open question and research will provide the answer, ever better questions.

The Case for Theism

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