AA is for quitters...
How could have Rutherford been a 'drunk'?
by wholewheat 99 Replies latest jw friends
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Spike Tassel
and in these contexts, quitting is a GOOD thing
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DaCheech
only if you had a soul
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clarity
bttt
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hamsterbait
Awww -
Reniaa - the memories... don't you just feel all warm and fuzzy about the good old days?
HB
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jookbeard
what a couple of dip shits on here, Wholewheat and the double life lying cow Reniaa, Mary laid it on her!
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Terry
Those were the good old days.
Farkel is certainly a lot tamer these days.
NOT!
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Band on the Run
I can't speak for the experiences of other people who knew Rutherford. My father and three uncles served at Bethel during Rutherford's tenure and partially under Knorr. I have never heard anyone reference the Judge with any respect. They just obeyed to obey. My father was a body guard. The Bethel experience then was very different from now. The small size and real persecution created intimacy that can't exist today.
There was tension between the factory gusy(my father and uncles) and the office crowd. My father witnessed Rutherford drunk on many occassions. My father and uncles remained hard core Witnesses. What they witnessed was very painful for them. They did not broadcast their experience. Besides being drunk, my father and a few other Bethelies invaded Rutherford's privacy. He was quite the adulterer. This did not happen in a private residence but in Bethel itself.
It hurt their faith, altho they view the JW doctrine as separate from any one personality. They also did not like Knorr either but it was much less than Rutherford. My mom, who lived in NJ, was aware of the womanizing and alcoholism. If he did not preach and enforce such strict standards against everyone else, his conduct may not have been so notable.
No one in my family ever talked about this outside the family circle. My family members were simple folk. They did not lie, even when they should have.
You could not be in Bethel or the tristate NY area without witnessing it for yourself. Most Witnesses are sincere people. It troubled their consciences.
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Leolaia
"Besides being drunk, my father and a few other Bethelies invaded Rutherford's privacy. He was quite the adulterer. This did not happen in a private residence but in Bethel itself."
Your father and uncles related this to you firsthand?
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Band on the Run
No, my mom told me. He did not find children worth conversing with. I wish he had b/c it would help me understand many things. I don't think anyone argues that Rutherford was worse than any Pople or any religious leader. There were far, far worse leaders.
Wait, she told me once in front of him. He did not dispute it. If I had a secret thougth that the Witnesses were less than perfect, he would beat me to a pulp.
She even told me the names of the other Bethelites. I was a teenager, biding my time to flee their household. If she were an apostate or had problems with the Witnesses, I would question the statement.
My maternal uncle detested Rutherford. These were factory workers from an earlier generation. They were not raconeteurs or touchy feely men.
Of course, I am not stating this is evidence that would stand in court. They are not liars, however. I would have an agenda that would color my responses. It might affect my judgment. They were loyal. It is not just my blood family, either.
I only recall these statements b/c they were so in contrast with the KH worship of Bethelites. They had very different temperaments than I do. She did not say what actual sexual conduct he had. Celibacy was heralded when I was young. I still had my eyes set for batchelor Bethelites.
One item I noticed in this thead about alcholism in general was that in the 1950s and 1960s, drinking and smoking cigarettes was viewed as acceptable behavior. When I first started practicing law at a large firm, I could not believe all the free and varied types of alcohol served at most function. It was free at law school. Sobriety seemed to become more a part of mainstream culture. The law school swtiched from hard liquor to sherry at functions.
I also don't think people would have blamed him, even as a religous leader, if there only a few occasions. The culture regarding alcohol has changed. Anyway, I think his doctrines and leadership style were the huge problems. Drinking and womanizing palls in comparison. Also, when I heard these stories, alcoholism was viewed as a character flaw rather than a biological condition that could be treated.
Pls. there are so many famous centers that are so lush that dry executives out at company expense. Very powerful people in the world have drinking problems.