by Sentinel 13 Replies latest jw friends
I've lost track of how the org is doing in NY City. Does anyone know how close their buildings are to the former Twin Towers?
I've heard that they own quite a lot, perhaps as much as a fulll city block. That amounts to much moola. I remember in Ray Franz book, how he said that the big wigs up there drove brand new top of the line cars every year, and lived in beautiful homes. I'm glad I'm no longer "paying their salary".
Just wondering.....
Karen/Sentinel
You should realize that they are in Brooklyn, and not even on the right side of the river to be next to the Twin Towers. Second, the new car thing is a leasing option that many coperation do to get tax breaks. Not that I am defending them, but neither one of the points you mentioned bother me a whole lot. If they are a business, then I would expect them to invest and handle themselves that way.
Are you talking about just the Watchtower factories and bethel residences, or are you including the Assembly Halls and Kingdom Halls scattered throughout the city (Broolyn, Queens, Manhattan, The Bronx and Staten Island)?
If you look at ALL the property it is FAR MORE than a city block.
I've heard that they own quite a lot, perhaps as much as a fulll city block.
Brooklyn is one of the Boroughs that make up New York City. They own much more than a city block. The Main offices are a city block alone, not to mentioin their factories, Furman St warehouses, and the high rise apartment and hotels converted for Bethel staff living quarters.
Each of the factory buildings themselves make up a small single city block by themselves. The 25 Bldg is all on it own as well. The thing is that these would not neccessarily by full city blocks in other parts of ther city. As others have mentioned the property owned in the Heights is extensive and valuable to boot.
As for the big wigs living in fine homes, Ray never said that nor do they. Gangas lived down the hall from me on the 8th floor of 124 and his room was not much bigger than mine. Bethel truly is communal living at its finest... the best you could really hope for was that the time you served would allow for a better room on bid.
Still I can appreciate the sentiment behind not supporting them any longer.
David
Inside information: The society owns 34 buildings in Brooklyn, not included KHs
can anyone estimate the market value??
For the most part most of the GB rooms were really pretty modest. Fred Franz who had the most seniority at Bethel did not have the nicest nor the biggest. The nicest rooms belonged to the married couples, esp. those in the office complex where you found alot of your seniority.
As far as automobiles most of the GB did not even drive, they were always driven by someone else. I managed a couple of times to hitch a ride to the assemblies with Freddie since we were in the same circuit. But to drive a car at Bethel you had to be designated a Bethel driver, basically what that meant was making airport runs picking up GB's and their wives or 'heavies' coming in from their speaking assignments. You were not allowed to use the cars for personal use (well unless you had connections).
Thanks for the response.
I should have simply said New York, instead of NY City. And that is just ONE place among many places worldwide.
And, I knew they leased cars, but they were still top of the line, new, every year. Lease or not, WE paid for all of it you know. And others continue to pay for it now. Typical organized religion, growing tax free to become a giant conglomerant of property owning vulchers. A real business, if you like.
Bethel is just a part of the org up there. I know that I read there were a couple high up officials that owned property that was designated for "the return of the older ones" upon their resurrection. (Why not just live there until they return? Right.) Perhaps I did not get this bit of information from the Ray Franz book, although I thought for certain that I had read something in there to that affect. I don't own the book, or I'd check it out right now. ( Excuse me if I mistakenly gave an incorrect reference. I really try very hard not to do that.)
I've read enough other related literature from people "living that life" to know that it is true. I am not judging these people individually, but I am making a remark from the information that has come to light. I well know that there were, and still are, many sincere, devoted believers, otherwise they would not be able to function. But the fact remains, that we're dealing with a Cult here.
Being at Bethel is like a commune. I knew many a bethel brother in my day. I also knew personally one married couple serving there. (very unhappy and trapped) I knew no one Brother that was truly happy there, but felt it was something they had to do, in order to get out of the draft. An obligation to the organization so they could maintain good status. (If a sister were fortunate enough to get a Bethelite later on after they served, it was considered quite a catch.) Most of them were extremely disallustioned at what they found waiting for them there. They just kept quiet and played the game.
The game is the game, no matter who you are, or where you are.
And, well, Nathan, thanks for your post. I'd really like to know their overall financial picture, --everything. Just how big are they? I put New York out there, because that might be a starting point, and that is where Bethel is. I figured the "posts" would enlarge on my question and so they have.
Obviously, it's been years since I've been to Bethel. I took a tour when I was about 14, the year I got baptized. (1960) I don't remember the exact location, I just knew it was in New York, and yes, in Brooklyn, to be exact. I knew they weren't next door to the twin towers, but I just wondered if they had a good visual of the event. We get all kinds of estimates now for the value of that peticular city block. I was just wondering how much value, say a city block of JW's would be.
I realize that "most" all the humble people at the headquarters, doing the work and the writing, etc., are getting paid a very meeger allowance. They do not drive the new cars, nor do they live in beautiful homes. Raymond Franz is not alone, nor was he alone, but he is one of few who have the fortitude and strength to make a stand and try to affect some changes. BUT, SOME DO take the cream from the top, AND THAT'S MY POINT...
They are no different than mainstream religions. They have advanced because of the basically "free labor", and the government tax break. There are a few who bask in the blessings of such "gifts" and "granted special privileges".
If they REALLY WANTED TO SHOW THAT THEY WERE NO PART OF THE WORLD, THEY WOULD DECLINE THE TAX BREAK. ~~Smiling and grinning ear to ear~~
Religion is big business, that's for sure.
Loved all the replies. Thanks kenpodragon, Nathan, Amazing, felix, fulano, and salud. The posts are put on to make us all think and question things, so that we will be educated and knowledgeable. The different viewpoints show a variety of people in different stages, sharing different thoughts. Isn't this what this Forum is all about.
Karen/Sentinel
The WTS at its farm complex in Wallkill NY has allowed severaol farm properties to remain on the tax roles so as not to be an additional burden to the locals. Meanwhile, they have also paid made many payments and contributions in lieu of taxes in that area (I am not familiar with Brooklyn). They have built parks, firehouses and roads. They have donated much labor, materials and equipment in assisting the local towns (Pine Bush NY particularly) thru difficult economic times. They are know as a very good neighbor there. I am not a JW apologist. The WTS there though has tried to be reasonable with the local authorities.
