USA Pride / Euro Concerns

by Amazing 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Most of the criticism of the USA seems to come from our European brothers and sisters. I call them such because they primarily settled our continient and are our ancestors. I have noticed some trends in this and find some fair things on their part for Americans to consider. I will address the following:

    1. Euros express irritation that Americans do not seem to take criticism well.

    2. American Pride irritates Euros, because we say we are the best.

    3. Americans, in their efforts to be the good guys, come across to Euros as self-righteoues.

    4. American patriotism and nationalism worries Euros that we might go to far.

    Criticism: The reason that it appears that Americans find it hard to take criticism is that the criticism comes across as extreme, all-or-nothing. If an American company does something wrong or stupid, ALL American businesses seem to be blamed for corporate greed, etc. ... or if some Americans favor the death penalty, ALL Americans are painted as blood thirsty, gun toting, gang-bangers ... and before long the criticism sounds like something from Carl Marx and the Communist Manifesto. Balanced views of the fact that Americans are a very introspective and self-deprecating culture are not properly credited. And it is because Americans as a people, in general, do care about our European brothers and sisters, and that is why we feel their criticism more harshly. We forget that Euros do care and that is why they sling criticism, because they want America to do the sensible and right thing ... or at least listen to their views and consider alternative concepts more closely.

    Pride: In fairness to Americans, Euros need to understand the American culture better on this issue. When we say we are "Ther Best Country" we do not mean that as globally as it sounds. A husband or wife might say that their mate is the best in the world. I tell people that my wife is the best cook in the world. It is not that we do not believe that there is someone that isn't possibly as good or better, but it is the sense of family loyalty and love that makes us say things like this about our mates. Americans have lost much of family strength and core support due to our high divorce rate, and the one common sense of community, of family, of social collectiveness we have is our national pride. Yes, other nations are proud of their countries, and do things that excell better than the USA. I strongly believe, for example, that the American approach to the drug war is way off base ... and I wish we would try the model set by the Netherlands (Dutch) where drugs are legalized and the drug lords are run out of business. America is Built upon the good ideas of other nations ... British law, Italian food, and German engineering to name a few. We are the product of the world ... and we do need to listen more - and we can do this without violating our sense of independance and values.

    The Good Guys: Here is where America, I believe, needs to really tone itself down - Europeans have a good point on his one. Yes, the whole damn world knows we are motivated to be good. But we do not have to keep rubbing it in everyone's face, especially when there is a national crisis like 9-11. Our close allies and brothers, Canada, UK, Australia, and many others are also the Good Guys every bit as much as we are ... and we need to realize that even in our desire to be good, and having positive self-esteem, we do need to see where we have not been good, and bring more accountability to our politicians and businesses. These two entities, more than any other, affect our national image. Following this, I wish that Americans who travel abroad would set a better example and not piss off the nations they visit. They give the rest of us at home a black eye.

    American patriotism and nationalism: Like American pride, this too is a quality that Euros seem to not understand about us. From the Euro point of view, I guess after two world wars and 70 years of Soviet domination, I would be worried about nationalism too ... and maybe we need to remember that our European friends just fear that if we get too full of ourselves with nationalism, it can and will go wrong, and we could end up acting like Nazi Germany or Communist Russia ... it can and does happen, and we Americans are still human and can succumb to this ... on the other hand ...

    Euros need to remember that America is a very competitive, sports conscious nation. I love it when Simon and Englishman talk about some sporting event between certain UK cities ... for brief moments they sound very American, in a British way of course. America has a love affair with sports and competition ... and much of our nationalism and patriotism is found in that same vein ... it is our way of mustering the best of the best to do the job ... and when there is any kind of war, there is no choice but to win ... because unlike sports, where there is always next year, in war, there are no second chances.

    Healthy Debate: I believe that 90% of the angst between Americans and Euros on this forum is due to misunderstanding, each side thinking they really know the other side, or each side underestimating the other. We are all good people, trying to do the right thing, and if we can criticize in a CONSTRUCTIVE way rather than destructive, we might have some productive and fun political debates without destroying each other. If we can realize that we are basically on the same team, a team that is trying to do things for the betterment and enrichment of humanity, we can accomplish much together - with healthy constructive debate.

    Last but not least: Euros need to remember too that America is not only already a very diverse nation, but is changing and evolving right before their eyes ... in 10 to 20 years Anglos will be a minority behind Hispanics and Asians. As we speak, Hindus are investing heavily in America, rebuilding its cities. Koreans and Japanese and others are investing heavily in American business as well as many Europeans are investing in America, changing its way of doing business. This will eventually work its way into our foreign policies and change our responses to many nations.

    I hope that our Euro friends and brothers can think about the above, know that you are appreciated for all that your respective nations and cultures have given to America, and that when you criticize us, try to be more moderate constructive ... and at the same time, at least this one American will try his best to listen better and understand that your criticism may not only be fair, but that it is because you are good guys who care too, every bit as much as America.

    Edited by - Amazing on 4 July 2002 9:42:27

  • wholewheat
    wholewheat

    Hi Amazing,

    You made some interesting observations and I wanted to add my two cents. Americans have no identity culturally or racially. There are too many different cultures and races living in this country, who are forced to tolerate each other, and our goverment is allowing more people in every day from other countries whose names we can't even pronounce. Japan has Japanese, China has Chinese, Germany has Germans, Italy has Italians, but who are we? We are culturally, racially mixed nation who is setting itself up for a civil war. We have not even resolved the differences between whites, blacks, hispanics, native Americans, and asians in this country and we are letting in people from Zytrstyprv and Kaswtyzjty. Along with this, we are over fed(there is a fast food on every corner) over entertained, and gluttonous in everyway imaginable, and God forbid if we have to wait too long in a gas line or wait too long in line at a grocery store. We have no patient, and we have a superior attitude. We are kind of like the Lakers and the Yankees. They are money teams that can buy any players they want, unlike the poorer teams who have to groom and train inferior players and build team pride and a tight unity. Look at how Shaq and Koby fight publically while they are making millions yearly. It's being over indulgent, and other countries can see this, even though we can't. Another point I would like to make is that I agree with the Society's teaching that America is the world power in the book of Daniel that is described as the feet and toes of the gold-headed image which is the 'iron mixed with clay'. That describes us to a tee!

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Amazing,

    You just knew that I would be in here first, didn't you, ha ha!

    Most of us in the UK hold Americans generally in high regard and feel comfortable giving out some light hearted banter which is always a good sign.We also feel the same way towards Ozzies & Kiwis.

    Americans who have travelled extensively are great people to be with. First time abroad persons are always hard work until they adopt the "When in Rome do as the Romans do" type of mentality. I recall knowing a buch of Kiwi's who were excellent fun whilst in the UK, apart from just one person who carped all the time about how she missed everything "Back home". You couldn't tell her anything about anything without her starting back with that phrase, which she actually pronounced "Beck Howm". Tedious or what?

    The US doesn't bother us that much politically, although we would like to see them share a little more in promoting green issues. The business of them witholding from am International court is bothering some people, but generally speaking I don't see any mega-type differences that could lead to huge problems later.

    Englishman.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Wholewheat: I am less inclined to believe that America, or any modern nation is fulfilling any type of Biblical prophecy. Maybe in principle we and other nations might be repeating history, may to our ruin, or to our credit ... time will tell. But I am uncertain about ancient Bible prophecy, and if any was literally fulfilled, I believe it happened long ago toward Israel or the early Christians ... otherwise, I lean toward the Bible being a lot of interesting lore and allegory.

    Yes, America has some of the problems yu mention ... and yet we are in a constant struggle to improve ... junk food is there ... but there is a corresponding health-food industry and social conscienciousness ... there are couch potatos, and there are an equal number of joggers ... there are smokers, and there are fresh air addicts ... there are tree cutters, and tree huggers ... our society is introspective and careless, we are caring and negligent, we are hateful and loving ... a mixed bag indeed.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Englishman: I long to visit the UK ... especially England and Wales. I want to toast brews with you ... bring along my wife ... because her family too are all from England ... her mom was raised in Swindon. I want to see the country of my heritage ... I love everything about Great Britain ... from Scotland to London ... and by the way ... ummm ... there is something I want to tell you, but I will spoil the surprise ... I will wait a wekk or two ... I appreciate your post about apologies from Logical, etc ... not that I expect them to do so ... but I wish they would try just a little to be more constructive ... and then maybe more Americans could let their pride down enough to be better listeners. ... well, if you wish, let's plan on a visit someday ... when I make it to merry old England.

  • invisible
    invisible

    Cool points Amazing, taken on board.

    Mark

  • Kent
    Kent

    Please don't force more American cultural terrorism on the rest of the world.

    It's bad enough that we have to put up with your dots per inch, picas, points, ciceros, nails, ens, ems, ells, letter size, legal size, tabloid size, microns, angstroms, inches, fingers, hands, feet, yards, furlongs, poles, fathoms, links, chains, acres, perches, roods, light-years, astronomical units, milesthere's even a nautical mile!as well as your pints, quarts, barrels, hogsheads, firkins, pottles, bottles, half bottles, tots, shots, fifths, magnums, carafes, jeroboams, minims, gills, nebuchadnezzars, methuselahs, pecks, bushels, quarters, sacks. And even your very own gallon, different in size from that other one.

    Carats, grains, drams, ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweights, long tons, short tons, bars, tors, atmospheres, pounds per square inch, horsepower, cycles, Fahrenheits, BTU's, even the inane and flawed pounds of thrust and g's. Even when Americans do use a metric unit, they get it wrong.

    Look, I'm not trying to be unkind. I'm just trying to explain why many people don't understand shit of what you're talking about.

  • gsx1138
    gsx1138

    In essence I agree with your post. However, I have to disagree with WholeWheat. The Daniel statement is far too generalized to be applied to anything. You may as well be reading a Horoscope in you local paper as more than likely that will describe you to a tee. The statement can be applied to any nation who is considered a world power at whatever point in time they happen to occupy. As far as cultural identity. You have to make that for yourself. Some do it by wearing red, white, and blue and carry an ultranationalistic attitude. Being a free country noone is forced to do anything. The door swings both ways and the beauty is you can live here and hate it because that is your right also.

    I had a classmate from Sweden lay it down in brutal honest terms. She said most Swedes she knows hate American foriegn policies in the Mid East because the Swede's have a large muslim population that has been allowed to exist outside of government control. Hence, (her words) there is prejudice there against muslims but not really the black and white issues we have here. I do find it strange though that Europeans can see through our gov. bullshit and most of us can't. I would classify most Americans as Jehovah's Witnesses and the U.S. gov. as the WTS. Most just want to believe our government is trying to spread the "truth" of Democracy. Despite all of that, and this may sound like a contradiction, I think 90% of Americans just want to be left alone to live their lives. The other 10% get all the press.

  • larc
    larc

    Good point Kent, Yep, we have some confusing measurements. There was a move on at one time to switch us over to the metric system. I think the metric system is now used in our manufacturing, at least in the automotive industry, but the movement never did take hold. The public just didn't want to make the change. Now, in all those measurements you mentioned, two of them are metric, thus international, ie., the micron and the angstrom. Some of the others, the US inherited from the UK, so they must share the blame, ie, the BTU (British Thermal Unit). It is interesting that our physicists use the metric system, while our engineers do not. Go figure.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Kent,

    Those are all old-English measurements. Most of them are more familiar to me than the metric system that was unilaterally imposed on us back in the 70's.

    Although I am now happy measuring up in millimeters, most of the UK still thinks Imperial. We still have mph and the distances are still in yards and miles.

    Englishman.

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