Any JW's take issue with R. Franz' writings?

TR

Just wondering if there is anything in R. Franz' books that JW's might disagree with, assuming you feel free enough to read them. Let's talk.

TR

Edited by - TR on 8 March 2001 2:2:42

JWs are not allowed to read Crisis of Conscience. Of course Witnesses alway follow the Tower's rules, so they can't know if they disagree with anything in the book. This book shows how dishonest the Watchtower Society is (yes, it's documented) but Witnesses could be disfellowshipped for having this book in their home. No TR, you won't get any JW takers on this thread.

--JAVA's sly effort of encouraging JWs to read "the Truth" about the Watchtower Society now ends.

philo

Despite what everyone says, I found the book entirely supportive of the dub leadership. I can't see what the fuss is about!

philo (is that one up on Java, or one down?)

somebody

TR,
zev is active, and he's going to read Ray's fist book. Maybe he'll add to this with his opionion when he's finished. It's been about 2 years, maybe more, since I've read COC, but from what I remember of it,I agree with philo. That's why I disagreed with what Fred hall said about it. Fred was trying to say that Ray "society bashed" in the book. I didn't see that at all. Ray told the truth about the inner workings of the WBTS, but did still seem to support it to a great extent. In his heart, he didn't really though, or else he would have gone back to be reinstated. As far as I figure, he had been involved for SO many years of his life, that maybe he still felt like to put the society down, was eqaul to putting God himslef down. He still couldn't differentiate the two. As far as In Search Of Christian Freedom, I haven't read it yet, so I can't say that it was supportive of dub leadership by the time he wrote it.

Were any of you still active JWs when you read the book (s) ? If so, how did it effect you? I hadn't been active for years before I read it, but it made me angry to the point of tears, and sad to the point of tears anyway.

peace,
somebody

Edited by - somebody on 8 March 2001 14:53:8

Fredhall

My take on Ray Franz books is that, IT SUCKS!!!!

larc

Somebody,

Ray Franz has several beliefs that are quite different that the JWs. He believes that all CHistians will go to heaven and therefore, everyone may partake of the bread and wine. This can be done at every religous gathering, not jut once a year.

He believes that blood transufusions are acceptable. He doesn't belive that the door to door work is necessary, rather, Christians should go from home to home, that is, pay visits on those who have expressed interest in other contacts with them, e.g., at work, socialy, in our neighborhood conversations, etc. He doesn't believe that their are more natural disasters
after 1914 than before 1914. He doesn't try to interprete Daniel or Revelations.

somebody

larc,

Thank you for those points. I'm going to have to read the book over again. I was thinking about doing that anyway. It's been some time since I've read it. I do remember thinking that he still supportted the organization "to a great extent". Could be just the nice way he wrote it all that gave me that impression.

peace,
somebody
PS...have you read his second book yet?

normie67

....I have read COC and found it quite fascinating. I am currently an active Jw. One thing I do know about Ray, (he used to PIO in an area around where I was from)he thought very highly of himself. I don't mean that in a mean or hateful way, but he always seemed to be in his Uncles shadow(Fred Franz).Now mind you I never met or talked to Ray, but only over the past 20+ years in the Org, I heard fromthose who knew Ray. So its probably not the best viewpoint.....honestly found some amazing things in the book. He did not bash anybody at all in the book, but found him to be gentle and warm in his writing. I honestly identified his writing style in the book to various Watchtowers that fit his writing style. I always found his writing to be excellent and easy to read. It definitely caused to look at things in a whole new "Light" after finishing his book. Thats just my take on COC.................

normie

eyes_opened

I have been *inactive* for about 5 years now, and have just within this past year started delving into views other than those WTBTS written. I am about 3/4 of the way through COC, and all this book has done for me is to reinforce what I already knew in my heart to be true, that Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization are NOT any truer or better than any other man made religion, and in many ways are worse. Ray having spent 40 years as a full-time representative, serving at every level of the organizational structure...the last 15 at international headquarters and the final nine as a member of the governing body saw from the inside out the hypocrisy and the damage that these men <and he humbly includes himself in assigning blame> have caused to so many people through the years, And his conscience would no longer let him continue to be part of it. I highly recommend the book, It is an honest look at the inner working of a religion so many of its followers *thinks* it knows. before reading this I had no idea about the Malawai, Mexico hyposcrisy, had no idea about the 2/3 ruling system, had no idea about the many, many dates that had been arrived at by the various presidents of the society that came and went with no fulfillment, had no idea that Russell used measurements of the great pyramid of Giza to come to some of these dates...those and many more. And why would I? After being in *the truth* for over 30 years I was good j-dub and ONLY would look at things that the society published. I was spoon fed only what *they* wanted me to hear. It is with good reason that they don't want people to read Rays book. It's very Eye_opening!

Eyes

TR

I don't think Ray supports the GB at all. He was frequently at odds with them when voting on matters, but felt compelled to go along or nothing would get done. He finally started to feel wrong about this, thus the "Crisis of Consciense".

Fred,

your comments mean about as much as a steaming bowl of dog shit. Shut the hell up or post something worth reading, dickweed.

TR

Any JW's take issue with R. Franz' writings?

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