Possible changes forced by Dateline..?

by kikisdragon 10 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  kikisdragon

  My best friend told me today that her cousin (L) who is a JW (although an immoral, poor excuse for a mother JW) called her to tell her that two elders stopped by her house this morning to inform her that her (recent) husband had molested an 8 year old girl in the past. (do not know how recently)

  What I'm curious about is if this is an individual occurance, or if this is happening around the country. Apparently the elders told L that they had to tell her because of the Dateline show. If this is true, then that is great. But I wish I could get more details. You see, L's husband is disfellowshipped. So, this makes me wonder: Are they only reporting JWs who are inactive or disfellowshipped, or also reporting active, prominent members? Are they reporting accused members, or only those who have confessed and/or have been convicted in courts?

  If anyone knows any more similar recent accounts, I would be love to hear about it. Plus, if you know any information at all about any formal JW replies to the dateline show and responses to the recent letters sent to elders, maybe you could let me know also.

  No matter what the JWs try to do to get around this issue, it will not be enough. The damage has already been done, and for people like my best friend, they will spend a lifetime trying to recover from the abuse. It is obvious that they(WBTS) are only doing it to save their hides, to protect their organization's bottom line when it comes to dealing with all of the lawsuits. If the men in charge cared at all about the children in the first place, their policy would have been changed long ago. They would admit their mistake, and appologize. But that will never happen bc then that would be admitting that either Jehovah CAN make a mistake, or that the org is NOT being run by God and that the MEN in charge made a mistake.

  I have gone back and forth so many times, wrestling with whether I even believe in god or not. I have attended a very nice church and became 'saved'. (at least that's what it felt like at the time) But I still have this anger inside, and now I am finding it hard to believe that there is a god. Or at least a loving one. I believe that people can take care of themselves, if they can learn toleration, and stop using God and Satan as a crutch for everything good and bad that goes on in the world. Whatever happened to man and woman making their own destiny?

  Any thoughts?

  -Karolyn

  Edited by - kikisdragon on 7 July 2002 7:13:28
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  Gopher

  Karolyn,

  You raise a lot of interesting points here, this could become a very long thread!!!

  As far as your best friend's cousin being warned about her non-JW husband and molestation, that fits the pattern that existed PREVIOUS to the airing of the Dateline show. Their reporter (John Larson) waited for the Society to show it is tough on molestors, and the two examples the Society came back with were NON JW MOLESTORS preying on little JW kids.

  So they still are handling the cases of JW molestors internally (or trying to do so). Also, if a JW is married to a non-JW, they will still do everything they can to try to wreck that marriage. It seems to be their ongoing policy. Ask anyone (like me) who was ever in a marriage between an active JW and a disfellowshipped JW.

  Finally, I agree with you that it is quite possible for a married couple to learn toleration and forgiveness, rather than using God as a crutch. That is not a popular view however, as most people in our society (Americans at least) believe in God. And as Witnesses, we heard that a happy marriage was impossible without the "threefold cord" (the first two cords being the mates, the third cord being Jehovah -- but in reality being the organization which they idolatrously worship). Yet in reality, you are right -- a husband and wife set ther own goals in marriage and then either choose to meet those goals or not.

  I can't wait for the umpteen more responses this thread should get!
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  crawdad2

  hi kikis,

  the dateline program and all the media attention that bill bowen is getting is working good on the public.......... it is putting a stop to alot of their "increase" in membership............ as far as active members go, though,.............they are under the influence of the propaganda that the gov body puts out..... they don't listen to anything else................. even if the gov body settles with bill bowen, for a policy change about the 2 witnesses........... nothing will change within the organization................. elders disfellowship members and reprove members, based on who they like and who they consider "expendable".......... a "pioneer elder" for example, who gives good talks and brings members or donations in, and places lots of literature will still be protected by the organization, no matter what he gets involved in........... and any children coming forward accusing him of molestation will be ridiculed and labled liars and silenced.

  without the law siuts to cripple the power of the gov body and their lawyers, nothing will change.........except that elders will learn to become more expert at covering their tracks........they will be shredding documents, and silencing members more than ever............ meanwhile children will still be in danger................ just my opinion.
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  Jim_TX

  Karolyn,

  Well, these two 'elders' only told your friends' cousin this?

  They didn't report to the local authorities?

  They didn't announce it to the other church members?

  I mean... if it is true, we are talking a potential pedophile threat to other children.

  I am not too impressed with their actions. Sounds like a lot of blowfish 'puffery'.

  Now they can tell anyone - "Oh yes, we take care of pedophiles."

  Yeah, right. (The fella is already disfellowshipped... it don't mean anything.)

  But - I suppose... any steps - are good. <sigh - shaking head>

  Regards,

  Jim TX

  Edited by - Jim_TX on 7 July 2002 13:31:45
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  TheOldHippie

  I am a bit surprised, though, when you state that "No matter what the JWs try to do to get around this issue, it will not be enough." This sounds as if you have made up your mind in beforehand that there is nothing the WBTS can ever do, that will help, make things better etc. No matter what religious group we were to talk about, I would have tried to uphold the view of being capable to forgive, of compassion, of seeing that a group was trying to improve, make some steps in the direction of its critics etc. I did a lot of evil stuff in my early days, and I was happy there was a God who was there and who showed mercy and compassion and forgiveness. I do not see why we should not try to show the same towards someone, if there is a wish for change?
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  Gopher

  Old HIppie,

  You cut off the important part of Karolyn's quote:

  The damage has already been done, and for people like my best friend, they will spend a lifetime trying to recover from the abuse.

  Lives have been ruined, and THERE IS NOTHING that can undo that, no amount of apologies, reform, etc.

  Later you said,

  I do not see why we should not try to show the same towards someone, if there is a wish for change?

  This is not about "someone", this is about an unyielding organization, one that has NEVER apologized for any of its mistakes. This is different than "someone" like you making improvements as an individual. IN fact, this sounds like apologetics for an organization, putting the organization ahead of the needs of the individual.

  Such talk downgrades the suffering that individuals have gone through. As such, it demeans the individual at the cost of undying loyalty to a corrupt organization.
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  TheOldHippie

  OK, Gopher, but please don't use words like "demeans" and "downgrades" in connection with my thoughts. One should be allowed to ask questions or raise half-finished thoughts without being lumped together with this or that. I have never defended the Society's stand as to reporting of child abuse or other practices relating to this question, and the way you use the word "apologetics" I don't know what it is meant to signify. If it means "defending", then as I have said earlier, I defend the theology of the Society (Trinity, God/Son, soul, hell, heavne/earth etc.), but not the points of chronology, legalism or "power" (I forgot the real word, languages are tricky at times), and I do not feel uncomfortable at defending or acting as an "apologetic" in the field of theology at all, whereas I no way want to be associated with the way child abuse victims and their closest are or have been treated. That does not mean, though, in my eyes, that one should be nick-named or yelled at just for daring to ask a question. Things in life rarely are 100 % white or black; shades have been known to occur at times. Since my presence in this thread offends you, I will seek out other threads.

  Greetings
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  kikisdragon

  Jim,

  I don't know if the elders had announced this at the meeting or told anyone else. I would really like to know myself and if I find out, I'll let you all know. I agree that they should, because this doesn't just affect their family. Anyone in the congregation with young children should have this information. Because if he decides to start coming back to the meetings and try to get reinstated, people at the Hall have the right to know what kind of person he is, and that their children are not safe around him. Add to this the fact that this should have been reported to the police anyways. I don't know if it was - most likely not, or his wife (my friend's cousin) would have already known, and would not have married him.

  Gopher,

  Just a clarification about what I meant about toleration. I wasn't really applying it directly to a married couple, but to mankind I guess. I really love the variety of people and cultures and beliefs. I have a hard time believing that there is only one and right way to believe. Certainly, there are some religions or beliefs out there that just make no sense whatsoever, but I think that as long as they are not hurting anyone it is not up to me or anyone else to say that they are condemned or inferior. I know that it is not realistic to hope for all of mankind to become tolerant of each other - that is just what I wish. I suppose when referring to a married couple, it is possible to also live together having different faiths- but I would like to meet the ones who actually manage to pull it off. I tried that with my ex, but he wanted no part of it. He just wanted out bc I had changed my mind about wanting to be a JW, and started looking for answers, and he just couldn't handle it. The ironic thing is, his entire family (9 brothers and sisters, zillions of cousins, etc.) is Catholic, except for him. I love his family - why couldn't he have stayed catholic? Even though I really don't care about the catholic faith, his family if so great! and they accept him as a JW and love him anyways. I can't seem to get him to understand that it shouldn't matter what religion your friends/family are, that they are who they are regardless and if you stop associating with someone bc they've changed religion or have none at all, then you're really not their friend to begin with. (note: my entire family, though small, minus my younger sister and recently reunited cousin, are all JWs and do not associate with me anymore).

  Crawdad,

  you have an interesting way of typing your posts......with all of the dots.......Any particular reason for this? :) I wanted to let you know that I do agree to some extent, that it doesn't make sense to try to reform a cult - a cult is a cult is a cult. I think if enough JWs who still have some of their own thinking ability left in them realize how terrible this policy is and that if this one needs to be changed, they might start wondering what else might be wrong with their 'organization'? All I can really forsee is possibly a large number of people leaving the congregations and finding freedom again. The ones who decide to stay and follow blindly along, well, that's their own choice, their own pitiful lives. I don't have to deal with it. I have more important things to do. :) Well, truthfully, I will have to deal with it to some extent, bc my son's father is a JW still. A df one but a true believer and wanting to get reinstated of course. So far I have been able to keep my 10 year old son from having to go to any more meetings for the past year or so. But if his dad starts insisting on him going with him on visitation days, I'm not sure what I can do about it. My son is pretty adamant about not liking the meetings himself, and we talk about why the JW way of life is so wrong frequently. It is a struggle to do that, but also not downgrade his father who is after all, a good father (minus the JW thing). Well, I better cut this short before I go on and on and on.....

  Thanks for all of the imput! more.....if you please? :)

  -Karolyn

  Edited by - kikisdragon on 8 July 2002 5:51:33
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  Gopher

  Old HIppie,

  I'm sorry if you understood my comments as "yelling". Although I have a definite opinion, I don't mean to push people with other thoughts away. It may be the language difference between you and me.

  I just didn't want to lose sight of the fact that the damage the WT Society has done IN THE PAST is not repairable. Lives have been ruined. You raise a different question -- about whether the WT Society will grow up and repair its FUTURE actions. That is a good question for debate. Some feel the Society is reformable, others think the whole organization should just be wiped away. I tend to think the Society is only very slowly reformable, and because of its sheer size, it's not going away any time soon. So anything that can be done to force it to behave will only help the innocent children -- and after all, this is a point we can all agree on -- innocent children need to be protected from those who would abuse them.

  Gopher

  Edited by - Gopher on 8 July 2002 13:10:47
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  QUEENIE

  THE JWs HAVE SO MUCH WRONG and not just being perverts paradise that queenie personally will never go back into a KH if I have anything to doo with it...I can sit right here in my comfy chair and read my KJV and talk to GOD just the two of us !!! YES INCEST and spousal abuse does its damage BUT LINDA aka QUEENIE has done her frigin best to keep this family's damages minimal PEACE to all......(((hugs)))) queenie and family