Thanks Nancee for the clarification.
Another J.W. Sucide
by moman 26 Replies latest jw friends
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nancee park
You're welcome. Anyone got a handy list of ways to help slow or prevent suicides among JWs in particular?
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nancee park
This will also go into a newsletter posted at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jahchristian
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Berean
Comments on this topic.
moman said:
Another one of God's wonderous creatures has taken her life, another J.W. sucide, how sad!
There will be those (mostly JW's) that say the Borg had nothing to do with it & they may be right, but I doubt it.
nancee park said:
The suicides rate among JWs is either climbing dramatically this year or else being reported far more as we are becoming more open about the ongoing tragedy.
nancee park said:
STARING THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT SUICIDE AMONG JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IN THE FACE:
We can not say being a JW is absolutely why these people died but we definitely can and do say that they are JW-related suicides. See what you think!
All the above is slanted toward there being something ominous about the suicide rate of JW's. Even taking into account the disclaimer in the sentence above that is highlighted. The conclusion is that "
THE REAL TRUTH" has not been told until now. What is the REAL TRUTH - "we definitely can and do say that they are JW-related suicides".
So the real truth is that they were . . . JW'S THAT SUICIDED. Okay, where are the facts that JW suicides are higher than the population in general. Do you want the facts, or do you just want unfounded accusations that the reason they suicided is "they are JW-related suicides (they suicided, they are JW's, therefore they suicided because they are JW's)." Apparently the latter as can be seen from the following.
DazedAndConfused said:
I agree that we need to "advertise, advertise, advertise" when it is right...but we cannot advertise when we do not know the "background" of why it happened.
All sorts of people, yes JW's included, suicide for very personal reasons. Just because a person is a JW, does not mean that being a JW is the reason why they suicided.
nancee park said:
Nobody says being a JW was the only cause. We said these are JW-related suicides. But go ahead and post more if you have something actually constructive to say.
DazedAndConfused was just trying to bring a bit of reasoning to the discussion, but, his contribution was not constructive according to nancee park.
This topic has become nothing more than sensationalism at the expense of people, like you and me, that thought it best to end their lives. How utterly sad it is to take advantage of these downhearted humans by posting their names in an international forum. I know that some were listed in local newspapers and so on, and that is bad enough.
Get some solid facts - why did they do it, what contributed to the problem, what might be done to help. Sorry nancee park that I didn't have anything constructive to say so I won't post anymore.
Berean
Edited by - Berean on 7 July 2002 21:38:50
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nancee park
As I told the other guy post all you want. You say I imply the suicide rate is higher among JWs than other groups. I do not say that and it is speculation on your part but yes I have read that it actually is. I believe the source for it was on Kent's observer.org website. Possibly freeminds.org has an incidence rate study.
Berean. You may be one of the Berean Bible Students a splinter off the Watchtower and think you are trying to be "fair" to your "spiritual cousins." Let me tell you something, though. I've been around JWs for many many years now and can tell you first hand that even if there were never an incidence rate, that yes the suicide rate is bigger. So please come back and post to your heart's content.
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LyinEyes
I know of two in Louisiana , USA.
My mother, commited suicide when she was 35 years old, 1985. She jumped from a high bridge over the Red River, the fall didnt kill her, she drowned. She was a faithful witness for over 16 yrs and even stood her ground over the blood issue the year before she killed herself. She had a bleeding stomach ulcer and her blood count went down to 2 !!!!!! The best doctors in Shreveport said nothing could be done without blood. We took her to Houston, Tx. and she slowly got better, it is amazing she survived that, and the doctors even took pictures of her when she arrived, to put in medical records of her condition, not many people live with a blood count of 2. She did have emotional problems and had abused prescription pain pills for years, some years she did really well, and would fall back to taking the pills. She had migraines and if you are addicted you are not supposed to even take anything. My dad who was an elder , was alot of her problem, she was sad, lonely and misunderstood and lived in silence to project the view of us having the ideal family. She never received help from the brothers in our congregation and they all knew about her addictions and how much she wanted to get better. They ignored it because dad was an elder and the other 2 were drunks so why would they address it. She went to rehab in Feb of 1985 and began smoking , she got d/f and so did my dad for adultery with a much younger sister in our hall. She was so full of guilt and low self esteem . I will not say that being a JW is the reason she did it , but I will tell you I was there, I lived in that house and I saw it first hand. It is the most uncaring , unloving organization I have even seen. No one would even do her funeral because she was d/f , not a one from our circuit even came to support me and my hub , we were both very faithful witnesses. No cards, no flowers , no phone calls. All the good things she did for those who needed clothes , money, or flowers when they were sick , and not a one of them could even honor her in her death. Very sad. I will do anything to help anyone out there that needs someone to talk to , if my mom would have had this site maybe things would have been different .
Another brother who was in our congregation a few years ago , was basically inactive and his wife was fooling around. He was often depressed even before this happened with his wife. I dont know if being a JW caused him to feel quilt , but he used to have long discussions with my hub, who was an elder at the time . From what my hub told me, this brother also had guilt. He started a fire in his home and shot himself. His kids were at the state fair when it happened, and we had to wait at the burnt down house to support his kids , I will never forget feeling so much pain for those kids.
I have heard about that hospital in Texas, a young sister was taken there by her crazy mom who was such a pioneer fanatic . There was nothing wrong with this young girl , but her mother. She moved back down south to live with her dad, she died within a few months in a mysterious car crash. There has been supeculation that she may have killed herself too.
My email is open if anyone ever needs to talk or if I can help in this fight for helping people to not feel like ending it all, is the only answer .
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nancee park
Thanks for lending emphasis to what Moman, myself and others are saying, that it is a serious problem among JWs. I think Troy may be going to help put up a website linked to the jahchristian (Free Christians) website that also puts out the newsletter. I've also found one California and two Tennessee suicides.
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DakotaRed
A few years ago, when I was still in but inactive, I knew a brother who I got along with real well. Both of us were Vietnam veterans also. For some reason, he was having trouble holding a job and I couldn't get him to discuss things with me. All I ever got was that he was okay and trusting in Jehovah. He too committed suicide shortly there after, although I don't know in what manner. His family would not tell anyone how or what was left in his note. This was in either 1996 or 97. I've always regretted that I couldn't get him to talk to me.
Oh, this was here in Vancouver, Washington.
Lew W
Edited by - DakotaRed on 7 July 2002 23:31:31
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Lieu
I think maybe we should discuss some of the problematic causes of JW suicide. I'm not speaking of symptoms (ie. depression, ect.) but the lack of non-support when people display or relate these symptoms.
I know of a young brother who used to do volunteer construction work at Bethel from time to time. Upon his last visit, he found that his regular employer would not hold his spot on the job for him. So, in putting "kingdom interests first" (TM) he lost his job and he was the sole caretaker of his elderly mother. Although he was a 'Master Carpenter" as a JW he ,of course, was not part of a union...so no automatic job placement. Anyway, he wasn't accepted for full time Betheldom and with no job, he became depressed. He was given medicine to help treat severe depression by docs, so he was making an effort to get proper treatment. He was also best friends with a MS at the Hall whose new home he had helped finish the basement on.
One lonely night, he hung himself from a tree in one of the state parks.
He did leave a letter, but the elders would not say what was in it. Oddly, the Cong. did attend his funeral as the elders stated the 'medication' was the cause of his suicide and no other factor....so basically, his killing himself was not his fault.
Well, in talking to his best friend's wife one day, the topic of this young brother came up. Basically, what she said is that they were afraid of him because he was 'acting funny'. What did his best friend and wife do? They avoided him like the plague, no speaking, no encouragement, nothing.
See the problem with most JW(s) is ... if a person is not deemed to be able to encourage them, they want nothing to do with that person. We run from just about anyone who may need for US to encourage THEM. We all know its true, that's why so many people pretend they are "fine" when indeed they are not. Everybody is told to find and associate with those folks who can bring up our spirituality and not those who may be in need of help.
Its all about who we can find to encourage us and not who we can find to encourage. We are taught to be very selfish. Selfish in service to ourselves and not to others. We are taught to leave the elders to encourage those in need...but not us. When you think about it, there are very few elders who know how to actually talk to people. Then, we all know what the elders are going to say, and it isn't any words of encouragement. I've come to the conclusion that the majority of JW(s) do not know how to say pleasant and encouraging things to people...as ours is more of a message with unnatural emphasis on doom than on hope.
I do know now, that the MS who was the so-called best friend of the young brother that committed suicide, has not been to a KH in several years. I'm wondering if the guilt of never being there when truly needed caught up to him.
Yet was it the MS...or was it the prevailing attitude of JWs in general? Walk up to anyone in the Hall and tell them things aren't going so good for you today, and watch how fast they run.
I find the longer one stays away from the Hall, the more one tends to actually notice other people and become aware of the obligation to help those in need. As long as one is in the Hall, no one else gets noticed or helped...its really quite odd.
Edited for spelling errors
Edited by - Lieu on 8 July 2002 0:36:37
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wasasister
You say I imply the suicide rate is higher among JWs than other groups. I do not say that and it is speculation on your part but yes I have read that it actually is. I believe the source for it was on Kent's observer.org website. Possibly freeminds.org has an incidence rate study.
Do you see the problem with your assertions? "Imply", "I believe", "possibly".... Have you documentation, or have you not?
Until we have facts comparing the rate of suicides among JW's with suicides in other religious groups and non-religious demographics, the anecdotal reports of JW suicides mean nothing.
Please be careful about sensationalizing individual cases. They could be meaningful; or not. Jumping to conclusions is irresponsible and reprehensible.