by Amazing 27 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Amazing,
In principle your thread brings up an interesting topic: the sometimes incessant put downs between atheists and believers in God.
It gets us nowhere. Fundamentalists look down on disbelievers, Atheists look down on believers.
A laughable scenario, since neither can provide visible proof or disproof to the other.
IW
Howdy IW,
That's why I like that quote so much... "If she weren't so skeptical, she'd be an atheist." I think that's why I prefer labeling myself (since it seems necessary that everybody label themselves around here) as an agnostic. I ain't believing in nuthin......yet.
In reality, perhaps the old way of saying that "we believe in our heart" had much common sense and dignity for our fellowman. It allowed room for others to have their own beliefs in their hearts.
Who knows? But you're right - fighting about it doesn't get us anywhere.
waiting
Interesting thread
I believe most persons who maintain a measure of thought will at some point leave the WT or will suffer a life of mental and emotional struggle within themselves. At some point, I think what appeared to be insignificant comments at the time surface and are appreciated for what they truly were.
These days I realize many cannot be helped until they are ready so it is pointless to spend my time arguing with them. I can only leave them with something simple and cryptic that I hope that maybe years from now they will look back and realize what I was trying to do and say but could not.
Path
I found my copy of The True Believer 10 yrs ago in a garbage box outside a Salvation Army store in eastern OR (yes, I am a surreptitious dumpster diver). There must be a God (attention all atheists) for me to have found that book that way! That same copy is now on loan to my 50-yr JW mom (she's loving it).
Also: had a HS English teacher (I didn't like her anyway) who said, upon my announcement that I was going to Bethel and had no interest in "worldy education": WHAT A WASTE!
Last: have somewhat repressed memories of disdainful look of householders when I did my presentations as a 6-yr old (so proud of myself), and not-so-repressed memories when I took my own son d/d and saw that same look.
Thanks to you ALL for sharing your experiences; it is really helping me grow!
Craig
Hi Waiting,
It allowed room for others to have their own beliefs in their hearts.
I agree, to allow others the dignity of their own conscience is a beautiful thing.
IW
Amazing, your thoughts and the way you put them ... are amazing. I have wondered how you have been doing since your close call. It is always refreshing to read your post and other comments.
I guess this is yet another book I should add to my list to read.
I am ordering books on mind control issues and brainwashing. I am not sure I totally beleive that I was literally brainwashed in the sense you see so sensationalized. But..... I had people telling me for years that one day I would see that JW were way off. Well meaning relatives, friends, and teachers also gave me that sad look , as a kid, the look of what a waste. Somehow I saw that look as something THEY did not comprehend, these wordly adults. I felt empowered by their not understanding , they surely did not have that connection with God that we as JW's did. I am interested in this issue of mind control, because I absolutely trusted the borg, never questioned it , until this last year. What kind of hold did they have on me? And to be perfectly honest, I think it still has a hold , mainly fear thou, fear of not trusting in myself . I wonder if yet again I am being led down the wrong path and too stupid to see it? My reasoning tells me I am right and am not being mislead anymore, but I know there are still some bugs to work out.
So now, I do want to kick myself in the ass for being so full of myself, so full of the JW org.
Interestingly enough, I started studying at the ripe age of 18, working full time for the Army military complex in Indpls, IN. I was raised in an Irish Catholic family with much drinking, incest, violence, and still lived at home. I was also going to college at night.......................and I really don't remember anybody having a big problem with me studying with the jw's.
I can understand not remembering much about my parents' views (I have a faulty memory about them) - but no one at work, nor at school, nor my friends gave me much problem. Neither did my sister.
I came in the same years Amazing did - perhaps local had much to do with it? Nobody around me seemed to know anything about the jw's. Perhaps that was the defining point........ignorance?
waiting
I have not thrown out any babies with any bathwater ... I am still a believer in Jesus Christ. Yet, I am not afraid to deal with the tough issues that challenge faith, even in Christ or Jehovah, or Yahweh, or whatever one likes to call the Almighty. I honor Dave Haack because he cared and tired to help me, when I was too brain-dead to listen.
My apologies for the misunderstanding.
I have been thinking about life lately given I nearly died 5 weeks ago with a massive heart attack ... and today is the 36th anniversary of my morther's death ... and so my mind went back in time a lot ... and Dave haack was there in one of the mental file drawers ... I hope that helps.
I hope that today you are in good health and spirits, and drawing closer to Jehovah and Christ. I guess all my comments apply to Dave Haack. As you know, having faith in Jesus Christ, even those who have good hearts like Dave likely does, but abandoned all hope and live in darkness, will one day awaken from their spiritual sleep to find the Truth.
I remember your posts on H2O and I'm so glad to hear you are still a believer in a Truth that many deny their entire lives.
Sending you good wishes for happy days ahead,
Derrick
P.S. Thanks for distinguishing me out of the many on this site who have rebelled against the Truth by addressing "Everyone" and then "Derrick" -- even though perhaps your salutation wasn't quite meant to be, well, flattering?
