Comprehensive list of WATCHTOWER DATES

by JanH 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • JanH
    JanH

    Thanks for your kind words folks!

    ....even you my twin brut... eh cygnus

    - Jan

  • Larsguy
    Larsguy

    1925 The end of the world immediately following the resurrection of "men of old" (Biblical heroes listed in Hebrews chapter 11). Establishment of Kingdom in Palestine. SiS7 p128, Millions p88,97. Very definite statements in WT 6/15 1922; 4/1 1923, elsewhere.
    Naturally abandoned after 1925, even though the date itself was held to be somehow fixed in the Scriptures even as late as in 1931 (Vindication I p338).

    Hi Jan,

    Thanks for posting this information!! But I'm aware that the basis for the 1925 dating is related to the WTS calculation of 70 jubilees. I don't know if you were aware of that or didn't find the reference. Basically they considered a jubilee 50 years and calculated 70 jubilees to complete a 70-jubilee period of 3500 years beginning with their dating of the Jews entry into Palestine in c. 1575 BCE. That's theo riginal chronology behind 1925, though obviously they attacked other events to it. It makes sense they would think the "men of old" would be resurrected at this critical time since it would be a major jubilee event for the Jews in relation to entry into the promised land.

    If I recall, this reference must be in one of the "Studies in the Scriptures" volumes which are online somehwere. It would be nice to include that reference in connection with 1925 to show the basis of this specific date. They certainly didn't see any resurrection occur and then come up with this date. They had to apply some chronology to predict it. Your coverage is quite comprehensive and this was a well-known missed date. Your list simply would not be complete without it. If you have access to the volumes then I think you can do a simple search. In the meantime I'll check and see if I can find the reference and then you can add it to your list if you wish. Many persons didn't realize the WTS had a concept of the 70 jubilees chronology theory. E-mail me if you like.

    Did you?

    Thanks, Jan!

  • Larsguy
    Larsguy

    1874 The start of Christ's invisible presence. Russell's most important date. Three Worlds p175, SiS2 p170, Our Lord's Return p27, Proclaimers p133 footnote. Until around 1904, Russell taught that this year marked the start of the Battle of Armageddon, WT 1/15/92 p21-3 [repr p1355]. SiS2, p101.
    Abandoned in 1930; [Note 2] WTS itself claims it was abandoned in 1943

    Hi Jan! I love your list but how could you miss the references that says that 1874 was the invisible second coming of Christ? This was a major date for focus for the WTS! Furthermore, you missed the actual CHRONOLOGY behind this date, that is, it's reference to the fulfillment of the "1335 days"!! I think that's critical, don't you? I mean what they attach to the date after the fact is another thing, but where they came up with the date in the first place is very important.

    If you can get ahold of the 1927 publication (can you believe it? as late as 1927?) called: "The Harp of God" I think (I'll check it out further) it discusses this chronology. But 1874 is based upon the 1335 years since the establishment of the Catholic Church...that's where 1874 comes from based upon Bible chronology.

    I'm really not sure, in fact, about the name of the book, it might not be "Harp of God" but I'll recognize it if I look up some of the older publications and I'll try to find the references for you so you can add this and the reference to 1925 being related to 3500 years of 70 jubilees. If you were not aware of these references then I'm glad I was able to bring them to your attention. In fact, I KNOW it is not the "Harp of God" but another one. I don't have a copy available to me. But I'll get the title and you can look it up, or maybe it's posted on the net. I'm sure the list old publications on the net and I'll get the title for you!!

    Thanks so much!

  • JanH
    JanH

    Larsguy,

    Hi Jan! I love your list but how could you miss the references that says that 1874 was the invisible second coming of Christ?

    That is indeed the first sentence you quoted under 1874, even though I use the word "presence."

    This was a major date for focus for the WTS! Furthermore, you missed the actual CHRONOLOGY behind this date, that is, it's reference to the fulfillment of the "1335 days"!!

    That was 1875, as you can see from my list. There were many lines of "evidence" presented by Barbour to support the whole 1874 chronology, and the 1335 days of Daniel was one of them.

    I try to be comprehensive regarding actual dates, but I only included the most important references. A comprehensive discussion of the theological speculation behind very date would be encyclopedic in size, and well beyond my intentions with this short list.

    Thanks for your feedback.

    - Jan

  • Larsguy
    Larsguy

    Hi Jan!

    Sorry, I didn't see the 1875! But I did a little search and, indeed, it was the "Harp of God" that gives this chronology. But apparently by 1927 which is the version I have, revised the dating to 1874. I found the reference I wanted at "larryi" and here's the link and post. So this represents that 1-year date change that AF talks about, i.e. 1914 based upon 606BCE vs 607BCE. The one-year difference would make 1875 1874, though I also am aware that they linked a 40-year chronology from 1874 to 1914 early on. But this is great references!

    But here is a reference you do not have from "Harp of God" apparently, at least not the 1927 version that as you can see from the quote deals with a lot of chronology. Maybe you should get ahold of the book and have a field day!!!\

    From: http://www.serve.com/larryi/proph11.htm

    Harp of God

    In the article "Jehovah, My Confidence From Youth On" from the August 1, 1993 "Watchtower" magazine, the WTBTS has once again either lied or misinformed its readers. The article states that in the book "The Harp of God" the Chapter "Our Lord Returns" that there were no dates given for the return.

    The writer says,"I read it with great interest, but I was disappointed that no year was given for the return. The book however indicated that it was not far off."

    Well, I get out my copy (The Harp of God, 1921) and read on page 231, paragraph 400 in the chapter "Our Lord's Return" as follows:

    "There are two important dates here that we must not confuse, but clearly differentiate, namely, the beginning of the "time of the end" and of "the presence of the Lord". "The time of the end" embraces a period from A.D. 1799, as above indicated, to the time of the complete overthrow of Satan's empire and the establishment of the kingdom of the Messiah. The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as above stated. The latter period is within the first named, of course, and at the latter part of the period known as "the time of the end"."

    Oops, ouch, whoaaa, what happened! Do I have the right book? Afraid so! Did I read the right chapter? Sure did! Could I have made a mistake? Not today! Sorry, but another case of (can I say it?) deception or error!

    Much of the chapter deals with the "presence" or second coming of the Lord and other WTBTS dates, including 1878, 1914, 1917, 1918, 1919. A very interesting book to say the least and one all JWs, ex-JWs, those who study with JWs, or just interested persons should read. Just another indication of the false prophet organization, the WTBTS.

    Thanks so much Jan! I'll read through the list thoroughly to see if there are any other surprises I can find and maybe hunt down some specific references for you. May as well tell it all, including the changes!!!

    L.G.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Lars said, "1874 is based upon the 1335 years since the establishment of the Catholic Church...that's where 1874 comes from based upon Bible chronology. "

    1874CE - 1335"year/days" = 539CE - - - I don't understand how anyone can say the Roman Catholic Church began on this date. Can you expand on this a little?

    I'm not criticizing, just asking.

    Thanks

  • Larsguy
    Larsguy

    You do great work Jan!!!

    I found everything I needed online!!!!!!!! Including all 7 volumes of SIS. Per your reference I found this statement I had known about only it's discussed in more detail somewhere, I don't know:

    "The 70 jubilees, reckoned as 50 years each, expire October, 1925." That's SiS7 pp. 128 of your reference.

    But NEWS to me was that this jubilee cycle, indeed, had been calculated end originally in 1875!!! This is of particular interest to me since this Great Jubilee focus in the early years completely lost it's reference in JW doctrine it would seem after 1925!! Somehow they figured 50 jubilees at 2500 years at some point and 70 jubilees at a rounded of 3500 years but still managed to be 49-50 years apart in their calculations of 1875 and 1925 which dates are 50 years apart.

    So this was an eye-opener to me how how complex and manipulative they made their dates work in figuring out all the various chronologies, implied or otherwise.

    But of note, I think their observations an instincts were good, but they just had the wrong dating. I think all those applications should work out in some way if the Bible is true; all the sabbaths, 40-year periods cycles, etc.

    Of note, therefore, a new date comes into focus and that is 1954. That's 40 years after 1914 when you count a generation as 40 years, which is Biblically appropriate, of course.

    I'm not sure how applicable it is, but 1947 is a critical chronology date in the Bible because it is the beginning of the 50th jubilee from 455BCE, more importantly a jubilee we can date from 36CE without any objection. That's the year the Jews returned from exile officially. 1954 is 7 years later. So you have a 7-year period connected with a jubilee in 1947 plus 40 years past 1914. So 1954 might have been a specific prophetic cutoff year for something Biblical. This does not bar a double-fulfillment for a "generation" to be 80 years by 1994 though.

    The reason why is because everything in scripture can be fulfilled by 1954, one generation after 1914 including the "great tribulation" which was the Holocaust, the preaching of the good news world wide, meaning by one international organization before the "end"; NH Knorr after WWII did a round-the-world lecture tour in 1946 I believe. The "end" by some is considered the "end of the gentile times" which meant when Israel took over Palestine again which occurred in 1947. And, of course, the "sign of the son of man" began to appear to certain anointed ones after early 1950. So this opens the interpretation of the generation of 40 years as being significant.

    Also what I've focussed on, since your article, Jan, is that there might be some significance to the year Jerusalem fell in relation to Jesus' death which might have some modern-day parallels. But the true date for the fall of Jerusalem could be as late as 73CE based upon the conflict in scripture for the death of Herod Agrippa which is 4 years. It has always been suggested, therefore, that 3 years were stolen from the infamous Caligula and added to the reign of Flavius who commissioned Josephus to write the history of the Jews. 73CE is 40 years after 33CE when Jesus died. I'm wondering now what happened significantly in 1954 within the oganization that would parallel with the destruction of Jerusalem in a spiritual sense?

    Anyway, as you can see, your article has inspired some new interest in the chronology arena for me and I think you!!! You couldn't tell from the new witness doctrine how intensely focussed and involved they were into chronology, even getting chronology from the pyramids. They still focus on dates as late as 1975 and 1994 but nothing like what they were up to in the early days with every conceivable implied chronology used.

    Thanks, again, for having this online for us!!!!

    L.G.

  • Larsguy
    Larsguy
    1915 The end of the world. From ~1912 until start of WWI this year replaced 1914 in Russell's writings, since 2520 years from 606BC ends in 1915 not 1914 as Russell had thought. The fact that there is no zero year was "forgotten" when some events happened in 1914. In 1943 the idea that had been promoted in SiS7, namely to move Jerusalem's destruction from 606 to 607BC, was officially adopted (The fact that Jerusalem according to Bible chronology fell in 587BC does not interfere with Watchtower chronology.)
    Year abandoned after start if WWI

    Hi Jan, thanks, again for the list. But....just to be comprehensive and for your reference, I hope you don't mind if I take exception to your statment that "The fact that Jerusalem according to Bible chronology fell in 587BCE..."

    I'll just note that you can't claim this is a a Biblical chronology "fact" since there is more than one interpretation of Biblical chronology. I won't begin a debate here but just an update of what others astute in Bible chronology would question regarding this:

    1. Josephus in Antiquities 11.1.1 claims that 70 years of "servitude" in fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophecy was served by the Jews deported at the time of the last deportation in the 23rd year of Nebuchadnezzar. If that's the case, there is an implied 74-75 year interval from the fall of Jerusalem in the 18th or 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar to the 1st of Cyrus. This would directly contradict the 587BCE fall of Jersualem chronology since there is only 50 years from 587BCE to 537BCE, the year the Jews are dated as returning from Babylon.

    2. Based upon Josephus' reference and his interpretation of Daniel's prophecy, though, Zechariah 1:7 and 12 offers critical parallel to Josephus' chronology: "...In the second year of Darius, the word of Jehovah occurred to Zechariah...(12) ...."O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years?" Some believe, therefore, that this is a reference to the 2nd year of Darius, the Mede who began to rule immediately after the fall of Babylon but that the Jews are still in exile since not having shown mercy to Jerusalem and its cities would indicate they were still desolate. This would confirm Josephus' reference, though, that the 70 years had not expired even 70 years after the fall of Jerusalem, which of coruse, if the 70 years didn't begin until 4 years after that, this reference in Zechariah confirms. The 70 years would not be over until the 6th year of Darius (the Mede).

    So some would say the "Bible's chronology" agrees with Josephus about a literal 70 years beginning in the 23rd year of Nebuchadnezzar that expired before the 1st of Cyrus. So it is not clear "fact of Bible chronology" at all that Jerusalem fell in 587BCE.

    So I love your list! It's great to expose all the missed dating and all, but at the same time, are you promoting a potentially false date yourself by claiming that Jerusalem fell in 587BCE? I might have let it past except you said this was a FACT of BIBLICAL CHRONOLOGY. Had you said it was a fact of secular history, I would have ignored it.

    Here's the reference in Josephus, just to save you time from looking it up regarding the 70 years that when harmonized with the Bible completely contradicts the 587BCE chronology. If you want to debate this in another thread, I'll be happy to:

    Ant. 11.1.1 "In the first year of the reign of Cyrus, which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they has served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that SERVITUDE seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their timple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity; and these things God did afford them."

    Jeremiah 52:30 dates the year of the last deportation of these "poor" people in the 23rd year of Nebuchadnezzar: "In the twenty-third year of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard took Jews into exile, seven hundred and forty-five souls."

    Thanks, Jan!!

    L.G.

  • JanH
    JanH

    Nathan,

    1874CE - 1335"year/days" = 539CE - - - I don't understand how anyone can say the Roman Catholic Church began on this date. Can you expand on this a little?

    In Barbour and Russell's chronology, the reasoning (or lack thereof) is as follows (from memory so don't shoot me if this is not wholly accurate): Until 539 AD, Rome was ruled by the "Ostrogothic monarchy", which had an arian christology. This year, this monarchy was overthrown and replaced by the trinitarian Papacy, thus starting a period of complete Satanic control of the world. 1260 years from this brings us to 1798/99, when this Papacy (Holy Roman Empire) was indeed overthrown (in a sense) by Napoleon, and 1335 years brings us to 1874/75.

    Larsguy: can you be so kind as to keep your crackpot chronology to your own threads?

    - Jan

    Edited by - JanH on 12 July 2002 17:17:56

  • Larsguy
    Larsguy

    Lars said, "1874 is based upon the 1335 years since the establishment of the Catholic Church...that's where 1874 comes from based upon Bible chronology. "

    1874CE - 1335"year/days" = 539CE - - - I don't understand how anyone can say the Roman Catholic Church began on this date. Can you expand on this a little?

    I'm not criticizing, just asking.

    Thanks

    Hi Nathan. You're right about the 539CE dating. That's precisely the year they use for the beginning of the 1335 years. It is explained specifically in "Harp of God" as to exactly what event this was. I don't have a copy available to me right now, but basically 539 was related to when some political kingdom was overthrown. If I find an on-line "Harp of God" I'll find the reference. But that is precisely right. 539CE is the date they consider began the Holy Roman Empire or something, related to some historical political event occurring in 539CE. Maybe its an obvious event and I can find it independently. I'll research it, but that's their reference. If I can find the exact quote I'll post it. Otherwise, maybe someone else who has a copy can post the reference to 539CE.

    L.G.

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