by Mary 32 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Gopher,
I take it the "brother" who "counselled" you maybe didn't like you very much?
That's probably true, I was somewhat of a rebel and "troublemaker"
I think their idea is that the bible is written only to the 144,000 anyway, so certain things in the bible do not apply to the GC. They can of course use that to their benefit anytime they want, and then, beat the GC with the bible anytime they want too. They can have it both ways.
Borgfree
What Covenant Jesus is the Mediator of ?
The New Covenant (Matt. 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:19-21)
And who is under this covenant?
Everyone who by faith in Jesus is forgiven of their sins (Hebrews 9:14, 15)
Who benefit from it?
Everyone who by faith in Jesus is forgiven of their sins (Hebrews 9:14, 15)
Too bad that the Watchtower organization claims that it, not Jesus, is the one to go to for salvation. Otherwise, Jehovah's Witnesses might be able to come under the New Covenant and have Jesus as their mediator, too.
ALL ELDERS and MS:
The next time you pray at a meeting, you should close your prayer with:
"We offer this prayer through the merits of the GB , amen"
This would be more accurate, since Jesus is not your mediator.
-S
Borgfree, obviously, that brother was quoting from his personal Talmud.
*** Insight Volume 1 page 814 Father ***
*** w74 7/15 447-8 Questions from Readers ***
Because Jehovah God is the Creator and Source of life, all humans are really his "progeny," his children, as the inspired apostle states at Acts 17:28, 29. Hence, all who sincerely acknowledge that fact can rightly address him as "Father."
The Scriptures clearly show that using the expression "Father" with reference to God is not limited to spirit-anointed Christians. It was before Gods spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost in 33 C.E. that Jesus, in his Sermon on the Mount, taught a crowd of Jews to address God in prayer as "our Father." (Matt. 6:9) Centuries earlier the prophet Isaiah stated: "O Jehovah, you are our Father. We are the clay, and you are our Potter; and all of us are the work of your hand."Isa. 64:8.
However, while all humans acknowledging the Fatherhood of God and living accordingly may properly address him as "Father," they do not all enjoy the same intimacy with him. Of the special intimacy enjoyed by spirit-begotten Christians, the apostle Paul wrote: "You received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: Abba, Father!" (Rom. 8:15) The term "Abba" is an endearing form of address. It is the intimate expression that children used for their fathers. Such intimacy is even now enjoyed by those of humankind who have been begotten by Gods spirit with a view to becoming spirit sons in the holy heavens, where they will enjoy personal association with the Creator.
Presently a "great crowd" is being gathered from all nations for survival of the "great tribulation," with the prospect of gaining everlasting life on earth in Gods new order of righteousness. (Rev. 7:9-17) Appropriately, they, too, address Jehovah in prayer as their "Father" or Life-Giver, as he has made provision for them to have everlasting life through his Son, Jesus Christ, the "Eternal Father." (Isa. 9:6) In Gods new order, these will be joined by the millions who will be resurrected from the dead. Later, all who pass the final test described at Revelation 20:7-10 will have their names permanently written in the "book of life" and enjoy the special relationship of being perfect earthly sons of Jehovah, the heavenly Father.Rom. 8:20, 21; Rev. 20:15.
You may be right Blondie,
I have had some "brothers" say some stupid things to me in the past, I do not know where they got their information. I did not, I should say, follow the counsel, I kept using Father. No elder ever approached me with further counsel, so, I don't know what the whole story was.
I notice that your quote, the second one, is from 1974, I think the case I referred to was before that date.
I will mention also, that when I started realizing just how much Jesus had done for us, and how he must have been more than we believed, that was when, I think, my eventual exodus from the WT began.
Borgfree
Edited by - borgfree on 12 July 2002 15:17:4
There was a QFR on this subject in the April of 1979, and that fall there was a larger study article dealing with the subject. Here are a couple of quotes.
"So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the mediator only for anointed Christians The great crowd of other sheep that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However by associating with the little flock of those yet in that covenant they come under the benefits that flow from that new covenant." WT 4/1/7
"They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ." WT 11/15/79
"To keep in relationship with Our Savior, God, the great crowd needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." WT 11/15/79
Here's a side question:
Since in Isaiah 43:10, God was talking to literal Israelites, would that mean that only spiritual Israelites can be Jehovah's Witnesses today?
"To keep in relationship with Our Savior, God, the great crowd needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." WT 11/15/79
Where is Christ in this statement? This is clear proof they have inserted themselves in place of Christ.
God =====> Remnant of spiritual Israel =====> Great crowd
Mary - you are not alone in missing this "teaching".
All my JW life I read the mags cover to cover, did research for talks, bible studies, questions from the bro's and sisters etc., in other words, I considered myself to be a pretty good student and up on the latest. Somehow this "light" flashed and blinded me temporarily so that it did not register completely. That, or perhaps it came out in a WT while I was in the process of making the big move from CA to the Northwest, setting up a new business etc. Perhaps someone can come up with the quote from the WT that first addressed this view?
Somehow I missed this completely. I am sure it would have raised some serious questions for me. Looking at it in hindsight, this teaching would be a natural progression from the belief that only 144,000 are annointed and the rest of us rate even less than we previously thought. (I kind of equate this to what some Catholic factions have done with the Mary mother of God worship teaching - so if Mary is the mother of God, a deity, than shouldn't we also feel that Mary's mother Anna deserves special attention.....?????????huh)
I only discovered this teaching after I started the slow fade, read COC and starting examining things on the net. The new light on "the generation thing" also bothered me a lot (this was a cherished teaching for me that I used extensively in the 70's and 80's on RV's and bible studies), however, I was too busy as a new elder and with my business to examine this thoroughly too.
I understand in principle the need for humans to have a mediator, Jesus, between them and the Almighty - but putting sinful humans as another "barrier" smacks of middle management redundancy.
Mak
Gee whiz,
We're all screwed now!
Lizard
