Dear Ex JW's:
If some of you remember my initial entrance to these boards was commenting on the child abuse situation. I stayed to long..
I was feeling the tension of several discussions with some of the people I work with who are active JW's. I was begiining to understand the kind of mind control they were under. I came to this board to use my less than curteous ...but mostly sport to open the flood gates of people emotions. I didn't want to hear a bunch of cooing.
well, what ever mistakes I made in this regard I apologize for anyone willing to accept it. For the others, maybe we can just carry on as we were....see who can cut the deepest...
I am faced with several problems. I may be wrong but I don't think I brought up anything regarding my religion until Francois brought up evolution. I like a challenge but I didn't want to expose my religion seeing how almost everyone seemed to be decrying organized religion.
I was trying to figure out a way to give my views withoput saying I was LDS. ..CATS out of the bag now! I didn't think that simon would allow this kind of dialogue and I didn't want to be excluded....so we'll see if we go much further.
The other concerns are some May..and I say that with intrepidation, want to give a fair hearing....others I sense are hear merely to deride.
The important factor is what would you consider evidence of a superhuman nature.....Notice I did not bring God into this...God may have His day later.
I think I made some remarks designed to see any positive responses but I still got alot of jeers....some people will never read all of the posts and will only chime in to ridicule.
SO.....what would at least start to be some evidence...let me give you some ideas and we'll go from there.
if possible, try to hold your judgement about the MAN Joseph Smith and just look at what he has done. there will be planty of opportunities to attack him on a personal level.
For anyone who has actually taken the time to read the Book Of Mormon ( from now on BOM) they will find a history of a small group of people who left palestine...refered to in the BOM often as the land Of Jerusalem. The record of this people it was claimed by Joseph Smith to be wrtten on small gold plates pounded out into thin sheets. The language of this people was not known to anyone (according to Smith) so God gave him translating powers so the people of our generation could understand that God is the God of everyone and Jesus is The Christ.
Many people scoff at this so here is the first of hundreds of ... Not Proofs but Evidence that J. Smith had superhuman powers ....powers which are talked about in the Bible.
I am assuming that at least some of you have a rudimentary understanding of the BOM
Who could write such a book as the BOM....Could you FRANCOIS....
1.you must be between 23& 24 years old
2. you cannot be a college graduate. in fact you can have only three years of formal schooling
3what ever you write must be on the basis of what you know
4 you must write a book with 239 chapters; 54 of them about wars, 21 about history, 55 about prophesy, 71 about doctrines, 17 about missionaries, and 21 about the mission of Jesus Christ.
5. you must include in your writings the history of two DISTINCT an SEPARATE nations, along with histories of different contemporary nations or groups of people.
6 your writings must describe the religious, economic,social and political cultures and institutions of these two nations
7.you must weave into your history the religion of Jesus Christ and the pattern of Christian living
8.when you start to produce this record, covering a period over 1000 years, you must finish it in approx. 80 days.
9. when you finish you must not make any changes in the text. the first edition must stand forever
10. after pause for food or sleep you must never ask to have the last paragraph read back to you by your scribe.
11. your history or record must be long, approx 522 pages with over 150 words per page.
12. you must announce that your narritve is NOT FICTION, but an absolutely faithful and true sacrd history.
13. it must show that it fulfills Bible prophesy
14.you must pulish it to every nation, kindred, tongue and people, declaring it to be the word of God.
15. millions must bear record to the world for the next 172 years that they know the record to be true. ( because they put the record to the test which is stated in the BOM, ...in paraphrased terms..if after you have read the BOOK if you want to know whether it is true or not ...ask God and he will reveal the truth unto you..........[ I will say right here that many have asked and not received an answer....I do not know why....there are some specific conditions when you ask and maybe some people did not fulfill those conditions....I only know I receved an answer along with many millions of others]
16.thousands of great men...intellectual giants and scholars must subscribe to its teachings and willing to give up their lives for it.
17. your description of the cultures in these civilizations of which you will write about are not known at the time you puplish your book
18. there can be no flaw whatsoever in the entire book.
19. you must not make absurd or contradictory statements
20 EVEN SO, MANY OF THE FACTS, IDEAS, AND STATEMENTS GIVEN US AS TRUE IN THE RECORD MUST BE ENTIRELY INCONSISTENT, EVEN THE DIRECT OPPOSITE OF THE PREVAILING BELIEFS OF THE WORLD. VERY LITTLE IS EVEN CLAIMED TO BE KNOWN ABOUT THESE CIVILIZATIONS AND THEIR 1000 YEAR HISTORY
21 you must invite the ablest scholars and experts to examine the text with care. you must strive diligently to see that your book gets into the hands of all those eager to prove it a forgery and a fraud.
22.THROUGH INVESTIGATION, SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL DISCOVERIES OVER THE NEXT 172 YEARS MUST VERIFY YOUR CLAIMS AND PROVE EVEN THE MINUTEST DETAILS OF YOUR HISTORY TO BE PERFECTLY TRUE.
23. AFTER 172 YEARS OF EXTENSIVE ANALYSIS, NO CLAIM OR FACT IN THE BOOK IS DISPROVED, BUT ALL MUST BE VINDICATED....OTHER THEORIES AND IDEAS AS TO ITS ORIGIN, RISE AND FALL, LEAVING "YOUR" CLAIMS AS THE ONLY POSSIBLE ONES!
24. INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL PROPHESIES MUST BE CONFIRMED AND FULFILLED WITHIN THE NEXT 172 YEARS...[ HAS THE WTS HAD ANY OF THEIR PRDICTIONS OR PROPHESIES FULFILLED?]
25. THREE HONEST, CREDIBLE WITNESSES MUST TESTIFY TO THE WHOLE WORLD THAT AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN APPEARED TO THEM AND SHOWED THEM THE ANCIENT RECORDS FROM WHICH...YOU CLAIM...YOUR RECORD IS TRANSLATED FROM.
26. YOU MUST CALL OUT OF HEAVEN THE VOICE OF THE REDEEMER TO DECLARE TO THE THREE WITNESSES THAT YOUR RECORD IS TRUE AND THAT IT IS THERE RESPONSIBILITY TO BEAR TESTIMONY, AND THEY DO TO THEIR VERY DEATH BEDS!
27. EIGHT OTHER WITNESSES MUST TESTIFY TO THE WORLD THAT THEY SAW THE ANCIENT RECORDS IN BROAD DAYLIGHT AND THEY HANLED THEM AND FELT THE ENGRAVINGS THEREON.
28 THE FRIST THREE AND THE SECOND EIGHT WITNESSES MUST BEAR THEIR TESTIMONY, NOT FOR PROFIT OR GAIN, BUT UNDER GREAT PERSONAL SACRIFICE, PERSECUTION, AND EVEN TO THEIR DEATH.
29.FINALLY. AFTER SUFFERING PERSECUTION AND REVILEMENT FOR 20 YEARS AFTER YOU FINISH THE BOOK, YOU MUST WILLINGLY GIVE YOUR OWN LIFE FOR YOUR TETIMONY THAT THE RECORD IS FROM ..GOD.