by eyeslice 55 Replies latest jw friends
Eyeslice wrote: " In the article below, there only two scriptures of any note that can be used to justify disfellowshipping. Pauls writing to Corinthians and Jesus words in Matthew 18."
Yet they quote from/point to Watchtower articles TEN times.
So what does that tell us?
(rhetorical question!)
;)
GRITS
I just spent a few minutes typing some comments and then lost everything I wrote. Oh well. Shall try again later. All I can say is when a person is in a fragile emotional state the organization's flip flopping can really mess people up. Now I shall send this and hope it takes.
I have three (3) siblings who are either disfellowshiped or disassociated. And I'll be damned if anyone tells me not to associate with or talk to them.
For many years I obeyed that crap from the WTS but not anymore.
They are my family and always will be and I will not let any Bible talking/teaching/preaching organization come between my family and myself.
They (WTS) can take all the hardline/hardball tactics they want.
Actually, now when I think about it, they (WTS) should be disfellowshiped and disassociated permanently.
Ronin1
Dear Ronin 1
I think they shouldn't be disfellowshipped, I think they should be dismembered (and their pieces scattered around the kingdom.)
So there.
Francois
As a person who had the gall to actually LEAVE to bOrg, I have paid particular attention to the information about DAed people. I noticed that the restrictions are significantly less than those of a DFed person... it just is not explicitly stated in the article. To demonstrate this, I have highlighted the parts pertaining to DAed people and struck out the parts for DFed people
Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative is Disfellowshipped
1. The bond between family members can be very strong. This brings a test upon a Christian when a marriage mate, a child, a parent, or another close relative
is disfellowshipped or
has disassociated himself from the congregation. (Matt. 10:37) How should loyal Christians treat such a relative? Does it make a difference if the person lives in your household? First, let us review what the Bible says on this subject, the principles of which apply equally to those who
are disfellowshipped and to those who
disassociate themselves .
2. How to Treat Expelled Ones: God's Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person' or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.... Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor. 5:11, 13) Jesus' words recorded at Matthew
also bear on the matter: "Let (the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus' hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones - See The Watchtower of
, pages 18-20. 3. This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved. God's Word states that we should 'not even eat with such a man.' (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. This would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, or trip to the shops or theatre or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.
4. What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah's view of matters: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Commenting on this, The Watchtower of
, page 25, says: "A simple 'Hello' to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"
5. Indeed, it is just as page 31 of the same issue of The Watchtower states: "The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped, he forfeits much: his approved standing with God;.. sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives."
6. In the Immediate Household: Does this mean that Christians living in the same household with a disfellowshipped family member are to avoid talking to, eating with, and associating with that one as they go about their daily activities?' The Watchtower of April 15, 1991, in the footnote on page 22, states: "'If in a Christian's household there is a disfellowshipped relative, that one would still be part of the normal, day-to-day household dealings and activities." Thus, it would be left to members of the family to decide on the extent to which the disfellowshipped family member would be included when eating or engaging in other household activities. And yet, they would not want to give brothers with whom they associate the impression that everything is the same as it was before the disfellowshipping occurred.
7. However, The Watchtower of
, page 28, points out regarding the
disfellowshipped or
disassociated person: "Former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. .
That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home . For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas.
8. If a minor child living in the home is disfellowshipped, Christian parents are still responsible for his upbringing. The Watchtower of
, page 20, states: "Just as they will continue to provide him with food, clothing, and shelter, they need to instruct and discipline him in line with God's Word. (Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17) Loving parents may thus arrange to have a home Bible study with him, even if he is disfellowshipped. Maybe he will derive the most corrective benefit from their studying with him alone. Or they may decide that he can continue to share in the family study arrangement."-See also The Watchtower of October f, 2001, pages 16-17.
9. Relatives Not in the Household: "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or
disassociated
one is a relative living, outside the immediate family circle and home," states The Watchtower of
, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum. - See also The Watchtower of
, pages 29-30.
10. The Watchtower addresses another situation that can arise: "What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8)... What is done may depend on factors such as the parent's true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household."-The Watchtower of
, pages 28-9.
11. As for a child, the same article continues: "Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring 'leaven' into the home? - Gal. 5:9."
12. Benefits of Being Loyal to Jehovah: Cooperating with the Scriptural arrangement to disfellowship and shun unrepentant wrongdoers is beneficial. It preserves the cleanness of the congregation and distinguishes us as upholders of the Bible's high moral standards. (1 Pet. 1:14-16) It protects us from corrupting influences. (Gal. 5:7-9) It also affords the wrongdoer an opportunity to benefit fully from the discipline received, which can help him to produce "peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."-Heb. 12:11.
13. After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.
14. Loyally upholding the disfellowshipping arrangement outlined in the Scriptures demonstrates our love for Jehovah and provides an answer to the one that is taunting Him. (Prov. 27:11) In turn, we can be assured of Jehovah's blessing. King David wrote regarding Jehovah: "As for his statutes, I shall not turn aside from them. With someone loyal you will act in loyalty."-2 Sam. 22:23, 26.
You will notice that I marked out almost all of paragraph nine. This is because it refers to Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28, which in turn refers to 1 Corinthians 5:11: But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortion, not even eating with such a man.
Being that I simply left and no longer call myself a brother, this does not apply to me. In fact I never considered my coerced baptism to be valid to begin with. Since I am not a brother, the scripture that would apply to me is 1 Corinthians 5:9,10 & 12,13: In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.
Bottom line they are to treat me like anyone else.
Paragraph 1 states this applies to both the disfellowshipped and the disassociated, and then Paragraph 5 speaks of these as those who' give themselves over to sin and has to be disfellowshipped '.I know it's been covered, but what a blatant literary mind screw. They always want to convey the idea that anyone who leaves that organization does so just to have sex with farm animals. I still hope that many thinking JW's will see the dishonesty in this twisting of words, and like an elder and his wife said to me, recently disassociated cuz it is a dangerous place, ' you are welcome anytime at our home '.
Yea, They played that game with me. I get a call out of the blue. ( haven't heard from them in 2 1/ 2 years). They wanted to meet and talk to me about necessary family business. Then I didn't hear from them for months, then they would call again. ThenCall----------Dissappear-----------Call -----------Dissappear. Finally I had enough of them jerking my emotions around. I sent my mom and each one of my siblings a letter stating that due to the confusion of my relationship with them and the ever changing meaning of " necessary family business" I find that it is necessary for me to cut any futher comunication with them until there is clarification as to what is necessary and why they would want to have dinner with their dis-associated brother. Seems like I don't carry any weight in what I deem necessary family business!!!!!!! THAT ORGANIZATION IS SOOOOO F#cked Up!!!!!!!!
I commented on this in another thread. Well, that I think explains some recent standoffish behavior on the part of my JW mom and sister: I've been DA'd many years. I've already pretty much called their bluff.
Too bad they're sacrificing relationships with their infant grandchildren/neices and newphews.
I can tell they haven't fully thought THAT one out. It'll be a cold day before I let them see THEM, while treating me like a leper. Can't have their cake and eat it too...
Tough times ahead mom/sis. The ball's in your court. No one said being a JW and following its anti-family/anti-human rules would be easy. But, you should have enough comfort in your "spiritual" family to replace the family ties with your daughter/sister and her babies.
Thanks. What I suspected as a gut instict was right on.
Sloboy: so true about JW's trying to portray those leaving the org as totally decadent. LOL....
Scumrat: congrats on taking a positive stand on the hot/cold bizarroid behavior. I'm just about ready to. Thus far, I and my children have just been UNAVIALBLE for their little "necessary family business" meetings. (What the heck's Family Business???? I think they're obviously trying to interpret such meetings as cold, controlled, timed meetings between them and the grandbabies, where I just happen to also be present) The little complication in MY family is that my father is an "unbeliver." Full JW supporter, but unbeliever nevertheless. Makes it a bit difficult to justify/explain the limitation of "family business meetings."
They'll hang themselves eventually. They really will.
Francois:
You do mean scattered around Satan's kingdom, right?
They certainly would not even qualify to be dismembered and scattered around God's Kingdom.
But before they are dismembered, I am trying to think of what other tortures could be inflicted upon them.
Ronin1
