Born good or bad? (page 2)

proplog2

Larc:

I don't believe in original sin. However, I do believe in intrinsic sin. This is the territoriality that drives the evolutionary survival process. Organisms that do a very good job of keeping others out of its territory and at the same time expand their territory seem to thrive.

At this point in time territoriality has had its maximum benefit and it is now working against mankind. Nationalism is a vestigial structure. If humans are going to move to the next stage they have to learn to cooperate/love one another.

That's one of the reasons I believe Jesus was truly enlightened. He laid the foundation for a truly international brotherhood of man. I also believe that if humans don't get some sort of outside help they are doomed. The main theme of the Bible is that a heavenly government eventually takes over.

Boy do we need that now!!!!

Farkel

: don't believe in original sin. However, I do believe in intrinsic sin.

For everyone but the original sinners, "original sin" is intrinsic for we living humans. It's in the genes even though the writers of the Bible didn't know about genes. It can be no other way if one is so inclined to believe Bible lore.

The concept of "original sin" came from an earlier concept called "original idiocy."

"Intrinsic sin" is a later version of the same idiocy.

By the way, I'm not convinced that Jesus was "truly enlightened," but I do believe he was "truly smart." After all, he founded a religion that has become a major player in this world and has been responsible for major genocides, too. Not too many people could form a belief system with that kind of staying and murdering power. But Jesus did.

Farkel

Edited by - Farkel on 14 July 2002 5:27:29

LyinEyes

Born good or bad?

I think most people , are good. I am going by things I have seen, the way a stranger smiles at you; someone taking a dog they just watched get run over to the vet; all the volunteers who went into the burning buildings on 9/11;helping someone you don't know fix their flat tire;crying when you see something sad on the news, even thou you will never know these people;etc. etc. you get my point.

These are everyday occurances, you hear of heros all the time . I think most would go far and above the means to help someone in need , even a stranger. That seems to me the greater good is in us. Why , or did someone put it there I dont know.

I think those who do truly evil things , are the only ones considered "bad.Of course we all hurt one another in some way many times. I dont think that makes us evil or even bad seeds, imperfect yes.

There are those who are just bad and evil. I dont know if it is a chemical imbalance, brain injury, or child abuse. There are alot of indications of evil people having a genetic problem, mental illness. I don't know if I just want to beleive this or this is the way it is,,,, I just seem to think most humans on the earth are good people. We love our families, our pets, our friends, we all love the same pleasures in life. We all want the good things in life. Of course there are varing degrees on people as good, better and best.

I always had trouble with this as a JW, I thought most people for the whole, not in all cases, but in the whole were good people. Certainly not so bad they had to be destoryed. I never fully thought that when the end came, that God would wipe my sweet kind old granny off the face of the earth. I knew so many more good people ,, why would he kill them. I even thought there were many that were better christians than myself, even thou they were not JW .. gasp..........

proplog2

Farkel:

Are you suggesting that Jesus advocated genocide? Obviously he didn't. So what's your point?

The fact that most Christian religions reverted to nationalism is an indicator that JW's are doing something right. At least they continue to practice the most essential part of Jesus' teachings.

Xena

terms "DipFuck" and "non-Dipfuck"

So which one is good and which one is bad?

And can they be used interchangably as in "You are sssssoooo Baaaddddd" meaning you are so bad you are good?

"You are ssssssooooooooo Diiiiiipppfuck"

Back on topic,

I think people are born with the potiential for both good and bad traits. Genetics probably plays a part in which of these are more dominant. Then their environment comes into play and helps to mold them.

I have seen to many good people that have come from "bad" environments and to many bad people that have come from "good" environments to believe that your upbringing it the only factor in the person that you become.

SixofNine

I've come to the conclusion that we are born somewhere along a line, running from good, to nuetral, to bad. I think though, that the earth is heavily weighted towards the nuetral to good side of the scale. I think nature affects us almost unalterably, with early nurture affecting us greatly as well.

By the time we start reading self-help books, it is to late for us to become either a great world leader, or great world despot. Still, we may just be able to make our own little path a bit more pleasant, for ourselves and those we love.

hillary_step

I think you were all born bad, especially Larc and Farkel. I present in evidence scriptual support for this viewpoint:

The wicked ones have been perverts from the womb;
They have wandered about from the belly onward. - Psalm 58:3

You gibbering apostates with your slick arguments and twisted, weasely, diseased thinking are living proof of the Biblical statement noted above. You were born wicked and you will soon die wicked, I hope that the Stock Exchange falls on you all with a crushing horror that flattens you and fires your kidneys out of your ears like soggy cannonballs.

This, you may have gathered is You Know. I am presently a computerless individual and HS has kindly let me use his computer, as if he had a choice.....lol. He was much easier to subdue and imprison than all the others........

Flip

So, I have to conclude that we were born good.

Larc, you may want to define 'good' and 'bad'.

For instance, studies have shown that during pregnancy if the Mother is malnourished there's a chance the child could be born with 'aggressive' tendencies. It is thought that this aggressiveness stems from our ancient ancestors during periods of environmental shock that helps the child, and eventually the adult, cope in an environment where competition for food may be extreme.

This manifestation of aggressiveness could cause a well-feed population to eventually find this combative behavior intolerable or bad, necessitating separation. Or the reverse, an aggressive society would view a non-combative personality as bad, a sign of weakness and ripe for oppression.

Think of countries such as, Somalia, Indonesia...East LA.

Of course, if you define 'born' as at the time of conception...wellthen there's genealogy to contend with.

Flip

LB

Personally I do think there is something to being born good or bad. The reason I say this is my own personal experiences.

Two kids, each with same father and each with a different mother. So I'm leaning towards genitics here. Both raised in same home the same way with same father and step mother, who love them greatly.

One turns out law abiding, other has super temper and spends life in and out of jail.

larc

Hey Hillary, Farkel and I resemble your remarks. LB, about the kid that is in and out of jail - hi Dad.

Born good or bad?

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