by dmouse 24 Replies latest jw friends
ha ha ... of course this will guarantee that everyone will know about and want to watch the programme now!
I've edited the no. out nicolaou ... and suggest that people can email you for it? (just in case as the die hard JWs will use anything they can to cause trouble)
Cheers Si'
Adding my thanks to DMouse - fine job, appreciate your effort.
Invisible: Good points on your part. "Window of opportunity = 3 days." That's true over here too. Btw, I think it's just human nature to not want to believe that it's happening in MY OWN backyard. Until someone's slapped upside the head that it IS happening in MY OWN backyard - people close their eyes.
Thanks to y'all. Look forward to the fallout!
waiting
I wanted to add my thoughts to this. My friend the other day told me about her husband of 29 yrs. They've been Foster Parents for 10 and very good ones at that! They're Mormon and have 2 times had claims that husband was touching the kids in house. Well, last one was true, and she immediately ran to her Bishop. He listened to the whole thing and since the husband also confessed when confronted, it was a sure thing. The Bishop listened and said, ok, are u going to call or I'm calling, you came to me and I'm a Mandated Reporter, so she had to call that night. Well, funny, her husband was also a STRONG Mormon, but they didn't have to call ANYONE, he already knew the law. Well, of course, then I revealed the whole truth about this scam, flim-flam religion, she was appalled, and know she will tell her Mormon friends that are now supporting her. Just thought u'd like to know, how much J.W.'s are ABOVE the law.
As has been pointed out over and over and over again on this and other boards:
The two-witness rule is for the PROCEEDINGS , not the CRIME. The burden is on Watchtower to prove its case for the two witness rule to apply to the CRIME and not the PROCEEDINGS; it has NEVER bother TO DO SO. When a woman was raped ina filed, her attacker was put to death ON HER TESTIMONY alone (but with multiple eyewitnesses to the PROCEEDINGS.
And even if there WAS a two-witness rule, and Watchtower can't proceed INTERNALLY without two witnesses, so what? Where does the Bible say that a person can't go to authorities and let THEM take action? Jesus Christ and Paul made it clear to 'pay back Cesaer's things to Cesaer; with no witness rule to apply.
RUN WATCHTOWER RUN
The wording of this letter makes it apparrent that the Society has really taken this issue for granted up until recently and has never really issued clear instructions to their members as to how they should handle the situation if it happens, let alone acknowledge that a problem even existed.
Even so, I find the letters to be encouraging steps in the right direction and I applaud them with cautious optimism (or gullibilty? lol). I doubt few could have forseen this type of language being used in a publicly read letter a year ago and those who pushed hard and sacrificed much for these changes should feel good.
However the future plays itself out and whether these words will have substance remains to be seen but at least personally I am hopeful that they realize it is no longer in any way in their interest to discourage the reporting of these crimes.
I find it disturbing though, that the Society manages to make changes but is never held accountable for the harmful attitudes they instilled in the flock or the proceedures that they instructed their men to follow. I hope they can be pressed to acknowledge their error and make ammends for each specific incident where they failed and every incident in the future if they fail.
Path
nicolaou, check your email.
Pathofthorns, I agree. Notice the expression 'elders know' as if it's all their fault if things go wrong. Again the GB escape any sanction for their crimes and the local elders take the fall.
As Crawdad pointed out, Watchtower CLAIMS that it will now report child abuse even when there are only one witness.
SO HOW MANY OF THOSE 23,000 MOLESTERS HAVE BEEN TURNED OVER TO POLICE?
Zilch, Nada, None, just as Crawdad pointed out.
Speaks for itself.
HI 2SYN:
You are 1000% correct in this ... this is EXACTLY the the Watchtower approach ... their above language to not 'impede, though it sounds improved, is really nothing more than a Reactive posture if they have to ... the Watchtower leaders do not have a Proactive bone in their bodies ... this subtle difference will then be explained orally by Circiut Overseers in visits to the Congregations or to the collective Elders in the private meeting held at the Circuit Assembly ... and this crooked, twisted, sly mentality of the Watchtower Society is what makes them on a par with the Mafia. No they don't kill, well not directly, but the frmework is there and functioning well. Thanks for bringing out the root core of Watchtower spin.Same old same old. DNA evidence, of course, is disregarded. Who needs secular science?
Our position is that the secular authorities deal with crime while elders deal with sin. To avoid a miscarriage of justice elders must not interfere with, prevent, or impede any secular investigation into child abuse. They must ensure that secular laws are adhered toTranslation: Only go to the police when required to do so by law, otherwise keep it covered up. Delightful!
Does the Society realize that their letter is no longer coherent?
They have totally confused the letter with the addition of:
Our position is that the secular authorities deal with crime while elders deal with sin.
Why are the elders investigating at all? So do the elders still determine whether the action is a sin or a crime?
If there are not two witnesses is it not a crime and therefore not necessary to involve the secular authorities?
For this letter to be coherent this paragraph below must be removed.
We expect the elders to investigate every allegation of child abuse. Even one abused child is one too many. However, in evaluating the evidence, they must bear in mind the Bible's clear direction: "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin .... At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Later, this requirement to consider testimony of two or three witnesses was confirmed by Jesus. (Matthew 18:16) Thus, although they investigate every allegation, the elders in not authorized by the Scriptures to take congregational action unless there is a confession or there are two credible witnesses, However , if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony can be deemed sufficient to take action.--l Timothy 5:19, 24, 25.
