If you noticed they never say that the child was removed from harms way, just that the violater had not been allowed to take part in all the "privileges" of the congregation. The child had to go home with the very person whom he/she had just accused of a very serious crime. No telling the result the child had to go through when he/she went home. GOD HAVE MERCY ON THOSE WHO HURT THE CHILDREN!
WATCHTOWER OFFICIAL RESPONSE TO PANORAMA!
by izobcenec 18 Replies latest jw friends
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Steven
Hi All,
In the WT letter it said:-
we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, No single witness should rise up
against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three
witnesses the matter should stand good.
This will never happen in the case of child abuse or rape etc. Hence they are basically saying no action will be taken. Even when I was a witness I felt uncomfortable with this because logic says that when something awful of this nature is being done then by definition there will never be any witnesses - its all secret!
Obviously there can be false accusations but every case should be taken extremely seriously & the accuser taken seriously because hey lets face it how many people get up one day & say "Right today I think it will be great to accuse someone of child abuse - won't that be fun!" I don't think so - there is always something behind this type of thing...
Hence the only proper decent thing to do would be to report it to the police immediately so that it can be investigated properly. Elders don't know how to deal with this - even if they want to.
The society's policy is really impractical & stupid! So what is the worse happens & the accused witness can't be an elder anymore - given what he is doing his this really that important to him - I don't think so. If the WTS wanted to really protect children they could do nothing less than to report any accusation to the proper authorities straight away & to then do their best to aid the investigation but instead its handled - if at all - totally inappropriately.
As for th 23,000+ explaination above - what a load of rubbish - basically they have a list of lots of dodgy characters - it still means they have a list & that is all they have - basically until they get the proof which will never come they say they will never act - so no protection for children there!
I am really glad this came out - as Simon said elsewhere sometimes I am amazed at the things I used to believe as a Witness - such as in this case that Jehovah would never allow this to happen & hence nothing could be going on in the "True Religion" - what a joke...
Steven.
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Europe
They denie the number 23720! You can find it here:
Ofcourse what did you expect!!!! They'll even sell their own mother and deny everything in order to protect their so called 'good' image!! *puke*
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LittleToe
You have been told that here in the United States we have compiled a list of 23,720 names of child abusers. That is false. First of all, the total number of names in our records is considerably lower than that.
Brown is here confessing that their total list may be considerably higher that the 23k. He's only commenting on the numbers of those listed but the Society as actual abusers. Further, he's not reporting how many of those have been reported to the authories.
I find the "20 year" rule interesting. All the BOE letters say "some time" or "many years". Hence this is an open confession that there are listed child abusers (not just alledged) in positions of responsibility.
Gotta love the way they use smoke screens. Cynical... me... ???
PS. Nice to see you Steven - been a while - love to the family
Edited by - LittleToe on 15 July 2002 4:55:11
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abbagail
A little girl tries to approach Jesus sitting in the crowd.
Her pedophile uncle, and follower of Jesus, tries to stop her.
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not try to stop them...:"
So the little girl makes it up to Jesus' lap and he puts his arms around her. She whispers to him that her uncle, who brought her there, has been touching her in ways that he should not.
Jesus sets her back down, and says to the uncle: "Come with me over here behind this tree."
The uncle follows Jesus.
Jesus looks him in the eye and asks, "Did you do this?"
The uncle says, "NO LORD! I would NOT do any such thing. The girl is making up fantasies."Jesus says, "Okay, then. Good enough. That's all I needed to know. Continue following me as my disciple..."
Jesus goes back to the little girl, kneels down to her level, and says, "I'm sorry Honey, but because there is no one else to back up what you say, I cannot believe you, and I cannot get myself in a jam without another witness to what you have told me. Look, here's your uncle now... run along home with him and be a good little girl and don't ever tell anyone else what you told me... ESPECIALLY don't tell any of the Roman soldiers... you know, they hate me and my followers already, so you would just make trouble for us, and you wouldn't want to do that now, would you?"
The little girl is trembling, frozen on the spot, all hope has vanished, and the look of death covers her eyes like a veil...
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Feel free to finish the story...
GRITS
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SYN
Brilliant posts guys, keep them coming!
One thing I noticed was that Panorama didn't mention the thing where the child has to accuse her abuser IN FRONT OF THE ABUSER AND THE ELDERS. Could anybody here give us some more details on this particularly horrendous policy? Seems that the more turbulence we cause, the more terrible the revelations get. SICK SICK SICK!!!!!!!
GRITS: Some hard-hitting posting there. Personally, I think that any real, caring human being who heard the exchange between Bill Bowen and the Legal guy at Bethel "Wait on Jehovah, he'll bring it out! Don't get yourself in a jam" would have been sickened by this lack of caring for the helpless children. Things like that are the final nails in the coffin of the Tower. WAY TO GO BILL!
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alamb
Didn't I read...the 23K number may be international? Thus, the number may be true, they are just misapplying it to the USA only and avoiding the issue again? I thought this was stated.
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LittleToe
Nice story GRITS, but I prefer this version:
A little girl approaches uncle Peter, telling him a scandalous tale of abuse.
Her pedophile uncle, approaches, as Peter quietly mutters something about "I'll get the b*st*rds!".
Peter looks him in the eye and asks, "Did you do this?"
The uncle says, "NO PETER! I would NOT do any such thing. The girl is making up fantasies."Peter says, "Why was it that you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, not to men, but to God!.
On hearing these words uncle Ananias fell down and [expired /was carted off to jail] (delete as appropriate). And great fear came over all those hearing of it.
Now after an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened, but having covered over her husbands obscenities for years.
Peter elaborated, and asked her: "Tell me, were you two together the whole time, and did nothing happen?" She said: "Yes, all the time."
So Peter said to her: "Why was it agreed upon between YOU [two] to make a test of the spirit of Jehovah? Look! The feet of those who [buried /Jailed] your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out."
Instantly she fell down at his feet. When the young men came in they found her, and they carried her out and [buried /jailed] her alongside her husband.
Consequently great fear came over the whole congregation and over all those hearing about these things.
Uncle Peter adopts the little girl, and they all live a happier life, thereafter.
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abbagail
Hi SYN, thanks, I was doing me best to see how the application of the 2-witness-scripture in Matthew would pan out if used by the one who spoke those very words.
That "jam" comment by the HQ on the phone was v-e-r-y embarrassing. I wonder what happened to the guy on the other end of the phone? I bet they kicked his butt for "getting caught red-handed."
LeeetleToe :) I liked your happily-ever-after version much better. The Good Uncle Pete v. Wicked Unckie Ananias. :) Always LOVED that account about Ananias and Sapphire. It always put the real Fear of God into me big time. I still get a charge when reading it, after all this time:
Petersays, "Why was it that you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, not to men, but to God!"
New hobbie: Altering the characters in scriptures to match Current Events. Quite exhilirating and humbling at the same time.
GRITS