Why won't elders factor depression in hearings?

by Pistoff 20 Replies latest watchtower medical

• 

  Seeker4

  I was an elder for many years, and dealt with numerous cases of depression among the friends in literally dozens of congregations in about 7 or 8 states. Once it got around that there was an elder willing to listen and who had a little understanding and empathy - well, you could find yourself overwhelmed by the need among the friends. Midnight phone calls were a common occurence in my house for years - many from elders or their wives, trying to sort out their own issues.

  But the number of elders that I knew who were willing to deal with this, and could do it with some success, was very limited. Most are no longer serving, and the few that still are have been pretty much beaten down.

  The comment that most elders will not consider mental problems as factors in wrongdoing is by far the view of the majority of elders I knew. In many cases, the elders really look down on "worldly" counselors and therapists. Hey, when you've got God and His Spokesman directing your every move and decision, you can certainly consider yourself superior to mental health professionals, even if you are a window washer.

  And like Prisca, I also sent a letter to Bethel. I sent mine to Colin Quackenbush (Colin was supposedly the author of one of the best articles that the Society printed in the early 80's on abuse and depression, and I had just met him) - four single spaced pages outlining what we as elders were running into at the time. This was in the early 1980's. Shortly after this we started getting some pretty well-researched material on sexual abuse, etc.

  But to say there were very differing viewpoints on this at Bethel is true. There was a real struggle going on at the time about how to deal with friends with mental health issues - and it seemed that the focus swayed back and forth between a more liberal and open view and one that was controlled by Bethel hardliners. At the time Jim Howard, a physician who was also an excellent psychiatrist, was a Bethel doctor, and I think Jim's knowledge and background helped Bethel make at least a few good changes. But then he left Bethel with his family.

  How things have gone in the ten years since I stepped down, I'm not certain. Everything seems so wishy-washy that I read in the literature, and the few elders I still know about are sort of what's left after most of the good ones stepped down - in other words, pretty clueless.

  Not a promising situation.

  S4
• 

  outoftheorg

  Isn't it odd that the organization that is directed by Jehovah through the holy spirit is so wishy washy

  with disputes between hardliners and others? They have to have a vote taken to decide an issue and it has to be a two thirds vote to change or adopt an issue?

  Jehovah--- no no---the wbts truly does work in strange ways.
• 

  plmkrzy

  People who entrust the mental health of people they love to clueless window washers shouldn't be surprised window washers would make such statements.

  SLAPS! Farkel...meanie!

  Gopher hit it on the head. The elders are in way over thier heads. I think next to the Quakers they must be the slowest to respond to discovery. Especially when it comes to mental health issues. If someone is suffering from deep depression too often they have been told to pray harder for the strenght to fight Satan the one who is causinf the depression.

  It is all due to ignorance on thier part.
• 

  ewtie

  See June 15th. 2002 Watchtower. When considering whether a funeral service may be carried out for a 'suicide victim' (WTBS's words) mental illness may be taken into consideration.
• 

  Scully

  For the most part, elders have NO idea about depression, and like paedophilia, depression is considered to be random and isolated incidents among JWs. After all, they DO claim to be "the happiest people on earth".

  The solution, as far as the WTS and many elders are concerned, is that the individual suffering from depression needs to spend MORE time in door-to-door service, in meeting attendance, in helping others. What they tend to overlook is that it is the very people who CARE about service, meeting attendance and helping others are the SAME people who end up getting depressed.

  They don't even take into consideration that Jesus said "my yoke is kindly and my load is light". Instead, they heap more and more guilt and shame for 'not measuring up' on people who are already guilt-ridden and suffering from a burden that's been piled on them by people who fail to coast along and take whatever they can get from whomever is willing to give to them.

  The other "answers" that a lot of depressed JWs get are that they must be having demon problems. Or that the depression is a manifestation of a sin that they have committed and covered up. There's NEVER any admission that perhaps the individual needs to take care of themselves and put "theocratic interests" on hold, so to speak. If a person chooses to do that, some dub will inevitably play the "so-and-so is spiritually weak" card, or the "so-and-so has given in to selfishness" card.

  What bothered me the most when I was suffering from depression was that nobody begrudged another JW (and particularly not someone who was studying) the need for recuperation from say, cancer or a fractured bone, and in fact went out of their way to help people who were going through visible physical ailments like those. But for anyone with depression or another kind of mental illness, there was little patience, little empathy, and absolutely no compassion. The individuals who could have benefited the most from a loving, supportive environment in their congregation, were the least likely to receive any help at all.

  When you've been on the receiving end of this kind of treatment, it's no wonder that people who are already suffering a great deal come to the conclusion that the organization has NO LOVE in it.

  Love, Scully
• 

  ISP

  Professional bodies have codes of conduct i.e. Doctors, lawyers....they have to deal with matters of misconduct. They do take into account depression/mental state. They will look at expert reports. I think if you were at a Judicial....you could bring a letter from your doctor..re depression. It would make some difference or at least make the grounds for appeal better. However, if you weren't to bring any medical evidence ...I doubt the depression account would be taken seriously.

  ISP
• 

  plmkrzy

  I wonder How many elders were removed from eldership because they suffered from depression or someother anxiety disorder?

  ANYBODY KNOW?
• 

  JT

  See June 15th. 2002 Watchtower. When considering whether a funeral service may be carried out for a 'suicide victim' (WTBS's words) mental illness may be taken into consideration.

  Just a look at jw and funerals:

  w77 6/1 344 Mourning and Funerals-For Whom? ***

  
  Mourning and FuneralsFor Whom

  The wt proudly quotes *

  the contemporary Russian-born scientist Theodosius Dobzhansky by saying IT HAS been truthfully stated:

  "No known human group . . . simply throw[s] out its dead without any ritual or ceremony

  Yet look what they said just a few yrs before -- just think while Jehovah and his organization was getting it wrong in 1961 some worldly educated man already knew it was foolish to treat ones dead in such a way.

  As you will see the wt has always had a wishy washy position on funerals

  *** w61 9/1 544 Questions from Readers ***

  
  Is it proper for one of Jehovahs witnesses to conduct a funeral for one who dies while disfellowshiped?E. B., United States.

  A congregation of Jehovahs servants should not hold the funeral service of one who dies while disfellowshiped; nor should a dedicated Christian officiate at such a funeral, regardless of the fact that the rest of the members of the family might be witnesses of Jehovah and in good standing. Neither should any of the congregation attend such a funeral.

  We never want to give the impression to outsiders that a disfellowshiped person was acceptable in the congregation when in truth and in fact he was not acceptable but had been disfellowshiped from it.

  *** w75 7/15 447-8 Questions from Readers ***

  
  What, then, should be the attitude of members of a Christian congregation as to attending funerals of reported suicides who may have been associated with the congregation? What about an elder who has received a request to conduct such a funeral? Where death appears to have been accidental, even though it was reported as a suicide or may have involved mental illness, the consciences of some members of the congregation may permit them to attend the funeral to comfort the bereaved ones. Also, it is left up to the personal decision of an elder whether he will conduct such a funeral upon request. However, the congregation may prefer not to sponsor such a funeral publicly or to have it in the Kingdom Hall because of the effect it may have on the uninformed community .

  On the other hand, where it is a clearly established suicide, members of the congregation and elders may desire not to become involved in the funeral

  . In such cases arrangements would be left to the family itself for a private funeral where some member of the household might say a few words for the sake of the relatives. Furthermore, some may not desire to attend a funeral of one who is believed to have committed suicide where the funeral is conducted by someone other than a member of the congregation or by the funeral director himself at the request of the family.

  As lovers of righteousness we leave the matter in the hands of a merciful, all-wise God as to any possible future for some of those driven to suicide. We who are lovers of life, holding every day of life sacred, endeavor to conduct our daily affairs and associations in a way that will merit the approval of the One who gave life to humankind.

  *** w77 6/1 347 Mourning and Funerals-For Whom? ***
  However, suppose the deceased is a disfellowshiped person, someone who has been expelled from the Christian congregation for one reason or another. In "Questions from Readers" (The Watchtower, 1961, p. 544) the position was taken that a funeral for a disfellowshiped person was improper. The comment was made: "We never want to give the impression to outsiders that a disfellowshiped person was acceptable in the congregation when in truth and in fact he was not acceptable but had been disfellowshiped from it." Are there no exceptions, in arranging a funeral for a disfellowshiped person?
• 

  JT

  ewtie says See June 15th. 2002 Watchtower. When considering whether a funeral service may be carried out for a 'suicide victim' (WTBS's words) mental illness may be taken into consideration.

  ##########

  This post is an excellent example of how wt has a long history of fliping on thier teachings that have impacted families lives

  how sad

  thank you for the post, i posted a historical look at Funeral in the every changing world of Jehovah

  he can't seem to make up his mind - how sad
• 

  Scully

  ISP writes:
  <<<Professional bodies have codes of conduct i.e. Doctors, lawyers....they have to deal with matters of misconduct. They do take into account depression/mental state. They will look at expert reports. I think if you were at a Judicial....you could bring a letter from your doctor..re depression. It would make some difference or at least make the grounds for appeal better. However, if you weren't to bring any medical evidence ...I doubt the depression account would be taken seriously.>>>

  ISP, I understand what you're saying here, I really do. But as someone who suffered from depression, I take exception to the suggestion that a "letter from a doctor" would suffice for the elders to take the condition into consideration.

  Nobody needs to produce a doctor's note when they have a cast on their leg. Nobody needs to produce a doctor's note when they have cancer, or a heart attack, or diabetes, or gall bladder surgery. Most people who are depressed and seeking medical attention are on medication. The doctor writes prescriptions for these pills. Asking someone who's already suffering enough to produce a note from a doctor is adding insult to injury, in my personal and professional opinion. It's telling the person: "We aren't willing to take your word for it" and "We think you're faking it" and "People who say they're depressed are just lazy and trying to get out of responsibilities of life". Asking someone for a doctor's note is just another way of adding to a depressed individual's burden.

  By the way, when I was depressed, I did ask for a note from my doctor. I had a support worker come to my home three times a week and a public health nurse came twice a week. Still, it didn't help anyone in my congregation show empathy for my situation. I actually had an elder's wife approach me and say "I think I might go to Dr. XXXXXX and tell him that I feel depressed so I can get a 'housekeeper' to come to my house too." In other words, she implied I was "faking it" in order to have help around the house. She wasn't the only one to make insensitive remarks either. Making fun of Scully seemed to become the new "sport" in the congregation.

  Eventually, there was NO WAY I was going to keep going to meetings with all the barbs and knowing that rumors were going around about how I was fabricating my illness in order to milk the system. Yet NONE of the 'friends' were willing to lift a finger to help either.

  I'm with Reborn. FUCK THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

  Love, Scully