Attn: SILENTLAMBS! ONE IN TEN mJW a PEDO!

by Focus 21 Replies latest jw friends

Focus

Per the reporting on BBC Panorama and evidence obtained from a number of Elders within the New York Bethel, the number of Jehovah's Witnesses in the U.S., Canada and "Europe" who are actually suspected of pedophilia (not just run-of-the-mill child abuse, like heavy beating, which is rife among the jWs) by the Watchtower Society was 23,720 (the number on the secret database which they have been compiling for only a few years) whose contents they refuse to divulge to the proper legal authorities) a few months ago. Click here for the BBC website with the official transcipt and streaming video:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_2114000/2114320.stm
Police, Child Protection and other Social Services in the western world generally believe that:
(a) the vast majority of incidents of pedophilia reported to ANY responsible authority (and in the case of hapless jWs, their elders and the Society represent the Supreme Visible Authority on Earth) are genuine (though there may not be enough evidence to prosecute, because of the difficulties of proof beyond a reasonable doubt) - certainly 90% are bona fide.
(b) For every pedophile who is known (whether or not convicted), there are 4 to 10 pedophiles who are not. I would add that among the Witnesses, where most children feel particularly unempowered and older men reign supreme, where they know they will be disbelieved, where the older ones know from tales of other painful "meetings with the Elders" that the authorities they so greatly fear will place impossible burdens of proof upon them, that the star-chamber, hostile interrogations they will have to endure at the hands of the perpetrator's perceived allies and friends - remember, as often as not the pedophile is one of the Elders himself - will be real torture indeed and that they will be seen, whatever the outcome, as being wholly or partly to blame for bringing "Jehovah's name into disrepute" makes it far less likely they will ever open their little mouths about what their Brother did, the proportion is probably far higher. But I will be cautious, give the benefit of the doubt to the Watchtower, and stick with the lowest figure on the scale here - just a 4:1 ratio.
A careful web search on www.google.com etc. will confirm all of the above. Did you know approximately how many sexually-oriented images of young children (not 16-year old maidens - I am talking about 12-year olds, 10-year olds, 8-year olds, 6 year-olds.... are traded/exchanged/downloaded on the Internet alone each day? The figure is shocking.
So how many pedophiles are there among the jWs of North America and Europe?
Now, I shall NOT make ANY adjustment to:
1. The figures taken by the Police to indicate the extent of undetected pedophilia among the overall population (despite the many factors listed above making it less likely that child victims who are jWs will whistle-blow to anyone at all); or
2. To the figures for the likelihood that the allegation is false (despite "telling the truth" being drummed into young jWs at every opportunity); or
3. The number of pedophiles reported to jWs but not, for whatever reason (Elder incompetence? Bethel-bungling? Local cover-up? Bethel cover-up?) passed on to Bethel in a way that got the alleged perpetrator onto the secret database.
AT EACH AND EVERY OPPORTUNITY, I AM GIVING THE WATCHTOWER THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.
The math therefore yields:
23720 x 90% x (1 + 4) = 106,470
as being the number of pedophile jWs in North America and Europe. If you are arithmetic-challenged, what I did was use the data from (a) to deduct 10% as "false alarms", and then use the data from (b) to allow for a minimum 4:1 unreported:reported ratio for pedophiles.
Let us now work out the proportion of pedophiles among the Western Jehovah's Witnesses.
Here are the peak figures for JWs in the USA, Canada and a generously-defined Europe (there is no clear agreement over what Europe comprises - I have generously included islands and the Baltic states, but excluded other ex-USSR states), taken over the last few years (not just any one year) from the WATCHTOWER'S OWN PUBLISHED STATISTICS, and then rounded UPWARDS by me. Note that the higher are these numbers, the BETTER it is for the Watchtower (as the proportion of pedophiles will then be lower).
Albania 1,900
Andorra 200
Austria 21,000
Belgium 27,000
Bulgaria 1,100
Canada 120,000
Cyprus 1,900
Czech Rep 17,000
Denmark 16,000
Eire 4,700
Estonia 3,900
Finland 20,000
France 130,000
Germany 180,000
Gibraltar 200
Greece 28,000
Holland 33,000
Hungary 22,000
Iceland 400
Italy 240,000
Latvia 2,100
Liechtenst. 100
Lithuania 2,400
Luxembourg 2,000
Norway 10,000
Poland 130,000
Portugal 49,000
Romania 39,000
San Marino 200
Slovakia 13,000
Slovenia 2,000
Spain 110,000
Sweden 25,000
Switz'd 19,000
UK 130,000
USA 1,010,000
Yugoslavia 5,200
TOTAL 2,417,300
N.B. The figure for "Yugoslavia" contains the figures for all the modern states that used to be part of Yugoslavia.
And let us add a generous 82,700 for "nearly-there" publishers, and in respect of the few jWs in European states not mentioned above (e.g. in European Russia).
Most observers believe the Watchtower does not understate these published statistics (if anything, in recent years they are overestimates, to bolster the confidence of jWs who keep hearing about large numbers of disillusioned Witnesses leaving). Let us give the Watchtower the benefit of the doubt (yet again), however, and make no downward adjustment to their figures.
That brings us to a grand total of 2.5 million jWs in North America and Europe.
In reality, the likely figure is lower.
Almost all non-passive (i.e. not just "enabling") pedophiles are males (this agrees
with Court conviction records for pedophile offenses). So, let us ask how many of these 2.5 million North American or European jWs are MALES over the age of (say) 16? Though the Watchtower is tight-lipped about these things, and for whatever reason (greater ability to submit to unjust authority?), it is well known that females significantly outnumber males among the jWs in the richer countries. Such is the shortage of males (and to mate with an unbeliever would be an unequal yoking and is virtually prohibited), the number of frustrated "desperately seeking" Susans in the congregations is a matter of humor to all who know the jWs! And, there are a huge number of publishers counted who are only children. From the above, I would deduce that fewer than 40% of the 2.5 million are males over 16 years of age, i.e. fewer than one million.
Again, to be generous to the Watchtower I will take the figure of 1 million.
So, we have at least 106,470 pedophiles, almost all males, out of 1 million male jWs over 16 years of age and living in North America and Europe.
THAT WORKS OUT TO OVER ONE IN TEN OF 'ADULT' MALE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES (IN THE US/CANADA/EUROPE) BEING A PEDOPHILE
SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
BILL BOWEN WAS THEREFORE *NOT* CORRECT TO CALL IT JUST AN EPIDEMIC AMONG THE JWs.
FOR, IT IS FAR **MORE** THAN AN EPIDEMIC!
IT IS A CULTURE.
THE WATCHTOWER SURE IS THE "PARADISE ORGANIZATION" ALL RIGHT. FOR PEDOPHILES.
I therefore accuse every thinking (OK, I know that lets most of the brainwashed Cult-Morons off the hook) adult Jehovah's Witness of being EITHER:
(a) A PEDOPHILE; or
(b) A PEDOPHILE-ENABLER.
"You will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." -John 8:32
INTERNETTERS (ALMOST ALL OF WHOM ARE IN US/CANADA/EUROPE: per the CIA Facts website, those countries account for about 90% of Internet accounts) WHEN THOSE TWO MALE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES COME TO YOUR DOOR, there is better than a ONE IN FIVE chance that at least one of them has PEDOPHILIC TENDENCIES.
Still want to open your door when you hear THE KNOCK?
And if you do, think of what UPBUILDING things you could do next.
THEY WANT TO PROTECT THEIR CULT AT ALL COSTS. LET THE SILENT LAMBS WRITHE AND BE TORTURED.
Such "opportunities" helps recruit more male Jehovah's Witnesses, anyway, of a particular "persuasion".
Ideal material for the future Elder Class and the Bethel Class and the Governing Body Class, remembering their illustrious past. After all, Watchtower FOUNDER Charles Taze Russell was exposed as a NOTORIOUS PEDOPHILE both in COURT and in the "Brooklyn Eagle" newspaper, at least one GB member was quietly removed because of his buggery of young boys in his care, and third jW President Nathan Knorr was caught in the Bethel toilets instructing young male Bethelites in the use of their penises - "right handling", as he termed it, with demonstration provided... and much more.
FOR WHERE THERE ARE SHEEP - AND ESPECIALLY LAMBS - THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF WOLVES
******* ONE IN TEN *******, it appears.
Far worse than among other large religions/cults, one can but conclude.
But with typical braindead/criminal jW hypocrisy, we see from the Letters Column on the BBC website Witnesses claiming that the relatively uncommon incidences of pedophilia in the Catholic hierarchy proves they are from Satan, and the more common incidences within the Watchtower Cult proves:
(a) they are being persecuted; and
(b) the End of this Wicked System of Things is near; and
(c) the Jehovah's Witnesses are God's Only Chosen Organization.
Brilliant "logic", eh!
A PEDOPHILE PARADISE, enabled by those Disgusting SPIRITUAL-PORNOGRAPHERS in Brooklyn and their SPIRITUAL-PIMPS around the world.
--
Focus
(Disgusted! Class)
Footnote: Additionally, I am informed by my Bethel source that as and when the Watchtower claims that the figure of 23,720 pedophile suspects on their database is inflated, as some of the 23,720 individuals are in fact the same perpetrators who have been "double-counted" (i.e., with claims made against each of them by more than one victim), they would be ADMITTING they are in possession of VITAL evidence (i.e. of more than one victim and accuser for the very same pervert for the very same type of offense) which provides compelling indication of his guilt, but still refuse to pass on any data to the responsible authorities.
However, do not underestimate the sliminess of the Teddy-Jackass-Class (and J.R.Brown-Nose-Underclass) that rules in Crooklyn. They have this worked out already. Two witnesses, but each to a different pedophile incident, does not meet their strict """"Biblical"""" test for two witnesses or no claim at all. And you know, straight from the front-orifice of the JACKASS: "We do not go beyond the things that are written."
Edited by - Focus on 18 July 2002 10:38:38
RunningMan

Nice math. I think your assumptions are reasonable, and the logic is correct.
Although I find the specific result to be a bit hard to accept, your analysis shows clearly that the pedophile problem is huge among JW's - bigger than most other religions.
JW's are dogged by a couple of their errors:
1) They have their own judicial system. Most religions do not. If a church member commits a crime and the church never knows about it, they are not liable. JW's, however, have painstakingly made it their business to know these things. Knowledge brings responsibility.
2) They are notorious record keepers. Everthing is written down. Therefore, every policy, every crime, and every action can be proven by their own records. By comparison, Catholic priests do not record confessions, so there is no evidence that they would ever have known of crimes among their membership.
Focus

RunningMan wrote:
Nice math. I think your assumptions are reasonable, and the logic is correct.
Thanks!
Your reply arrived while I was still editing the original (I know, I know, but that is how I put these little posts of mine together - they are not the scholarly essays of AlanF), and as I do not believe in editing a post once I have seen that it has received a reply, I must state here two points in the Watchtower's favor that I had not yet allowed for in the reasoning presented above:
* SOME OF THE 23,720 ARE NO LONGER jWs (perhaps, a tiny number were DF'd, or DA'd themselves, or died).
* There is an (unfortunately) small annual attrition rate (average for the countries concerned: 2%) among the general population of jWs, so my method slightly underestimates the total number who have been jWs during the period the WTBTS Pedo-database was compiled.
Given, however, that at every other stage I have used figures in the Watchtower's favor and given jWs the benefit of the doubt in order to arrive at the 1.06 : 10 jW "pedophile" ratio, there is probably a netting-off and balancing, making the conclusion of "1 in 10" among adult male jWs in the regions stated a reasonable one.
Although I find the specific result to be a bit hard to accept,
Truth is often hard to accept.
fwiw, I BELIEVE THE "ONE IN TEN" FIGURE AMONG ADULT MALE jWs.
If my math, logic (given my addition above) and stated assumptions are right, as you believe them to be, then either my source data is wrong - or the conclusion is right. Some of the source data (viz. the pedophile detection-failure ratio) is arguable - such is the nature of pedophilia that no one really knows - but I used the figure most favorable to the Watchtower from those available to me.
In the words of Mr. Sherlock Holmes:
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" (Chapter 6, "Sherlock Holmes Gives a Demonstration", from "The Sign Of Four" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle).
But Bill Bowen's data on the size of the Watchtower's Pedo-database (sorry, cops, not for you, says Teddy Jackass and his henchmen Pedo-Enablers) IS reliable - for I have been supplied with almost the same figure, almost certainly from a common source within Bethel.
Unfortunately, attempts to get a copy of the database have not been successful - from my source, I understand little of it is in computer-readable form. No doubt this is deliberate. I fear that much of this Pedo-database itself will be "disappeared" in order to "protect Jehovah's name". If Enron's accountants could... so could the Brooklyn Boyz.
your analysis shows clearly that the pedophile problem is huge among JW's - bigger than most other religions.
Yep, and bigger than that in ALL other LARGE (measured by adherents) religions.
Unsurprising, given that the fear, authoritarianism, absolutism, conformity, rule-intrusion, invasive control, extreme distrust of outsiders and "keeping God's name out of dishonor"-ism is FAR higher among jWs than among ANY other large religion.
JW's are dogged by a couple of their errors:
1) They have their own judicial system. Most religions do not. If a church member commits a crime and the church never knows about it, they are not liable. JW's, however, have painstakingly made it their business to know these things. Knowledge brings responsibility.
2) They are notorious record keepers. Everthing is written down. Therefore, every policy, every crime, and every action can be proven by their own records. By comparison, Catholic priests do not record confessions, so there is no evidence that they would ever have known of crimes among their membership.
True, and I was going to include some words precisely to this effect in the original, when I saw your reply. I have scrapped the Edit and will happily adopt your text. Indeed, these two points might be seen to argue for a lower figure being used for the undetected:detected ratio (as the chance of detection is higher among a record-keeping, snooping cult). However, I have mentioned half a dozen points which mitigate in the opposite direction, and in any case I used the lowest figure given for this "undetected" ratio amongst the general population (4:1, rather than the highest of 10:1 which would have resulted in a conclusion of eleven out of fifty adult male jWs in the region being pedophilic - which SURELY cannot be true, even among this Cult of Mental Disease..... Can it?
Before anyone asks, I will give the math relating to the pedo-danger posed when there are two adult male jWs at the door (a common situation).
If the probability that any one adult male jW in the US/Canada/Europe is a pedo is 1 in 10, i.e. 10%, then the probability any such given one is NOT is 100% less 10% = 90%.
So the probability that any two are not (assuming that the pedo jWs do not overall tend to band together or apart when going door-knocking, I admit) is 90% x 90% = 81%.
And it follows that the probability that it is false that "neither is a pedo" - i.e., the probability that one or both is a pedo - must be 100% less 81% = 19%.
It is very fair to assume that the pedophiles will be more active than the average jW at the door-to-door spiritual-pimping, scouting for vulnerable young recruits as "talent" - and to ensure he stays in top-standing at the Hall (increasing his chances with the lambs already within). Even if we say Mr Average Pedo jW is just 10% more active than Mr Average non-Pedo jW in terms of doors knocked at, the calculation becomes (to three significant figures of accuracy)
100% less (89.1% x 89.1%) = c20.6%, i.e. a little more than a one in five chance that at least one is a pedo, which is what I said. Perfectionists note that it is 89.1% not 89% because if the the 10% of "local" adult male jWs who are pedos are 10% more active than Mr Average, they are doing not 10%+1%=11% but c10.9% of the "knocking" (please, no pun intended: this is no laughing matter) work, calculated as (10%+1%)/(100%+1%). Splitting micro-hairs I know, but that is what the jW F iends specialize in when they rush to defend Satan's work.
"God's People" - fer sure, these experts at "WE NEVER QUITE CLAIMED THAT!"
--
Focus
(Knocking Down Those Walls of SHAME... Class)
Edited by - Focus on 18 July 2002 12:36:14
RunningMan

Just one more thing I would like to add to this: JW's have always been the first on the bandwagon to critisize other religions. They have looked down their noses at Catholics for a long time. Well, what goes around, comes around.
They are now the dregs of Christendom - not just bad, but possibly the worst. Not just exposed for wrongdoing, but exposed for their hypocritical denunciation of others for crimes they themselves were committing.
They deserve everything they get, and more.
Focus

RunningMan wrote:
Just one more thing I would like to add to this: JW's have always been the first on the bandwagon to critisize other religions. They have looked down their noses at Catholics for a long time.
So true.
But while this is the most significant, important and damaging act of gross hypocrisy that has backfired on them, it is not the most blatant!
Look at this statement from the October 8, 1977 issue of Awake! on page 29, on the subject of ridiculing the Catholics for their belief that Blacks were cursed by God which "apparently survived until 1873 when Pope Pius IX attached an indulgence to a prayer for the 'wretched Ethiopians in Central Africa that almighty God may at length remove the curse of Cham (Ham) from their hearts."
The Watchtower failed to mention that IT had held on to exactly that same belief for AT LEAST 56 further years!
It had held that the view (by then long abandoned by the Catholics) was quite likely true in 1902, when they wrote: "Ham's characteristics which had led him to unseemly conduct disrespectful to his father, would be found cropping out later, inherited by his son, and prophetically he foretold that this degeneracy would mark the posterity of Canaan, degrading him, making him servile. We are not able to determine to a certainty that the sons of Ham and Canaan are negroes; but we consider that general view as probable as any other" in the July 15 issue of Zion's Watchtower. And this view was still held in 1929, for in The Golden Age of July 24 of that year on page 702 appeared: "Is there anything in the Bible that reveals the origin of the Negro? It is generally believed that the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the Black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, 'Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren,' he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants .. There is no servant in the world as good as a good colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
SO THE WATCHTOWER DIRECTLY ATTACKED THE CATHOLICS FOR A RACIST TEACHING THAT THE WATCHTOWER ITSELF HAD PROPAGATED OVER ANOTHER 56 YEARS AFTER THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OFFICIALLY REVERSED THEIR POSITION!! AUDACITY OF AN UNPARALLELED SCALE!
Well, what goes around, comes around. They are now the dregs of Christendom - not just bad, but possibly the worst. Not just exposed for wrongdoing, but exposed for their hypocritical denunciation of others for crimes they themselves were committing.
EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF THE GOVERNING BODY OF THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR WOLF CLASS "ENABLERS", DESERVES THE MOST PAINFUL AND LINGERING DEATH THAT ONE CAN IMAGINE FOR THE WICKEDNESS THEY HAVE PROPAGATED AND THE EVIL THEY DO. But we must leave that to God, due to the restrictions placed on us by the laws of the land.... doesn't that sentiment sound familiar? It should do: I am using the language of the Watchtower itself (remember their reluctant ruling out of the direct execution of apostates?)
And so far, "God" may well have partly delivered! At least three of the four former jW presidents have met with less than pleasant ends (excrutiating syphilis/cystitis and perhaps a bit of poisoning in the case of the founder Pedophile Russell, lonely drunkenness and pulmonary complications in the case of Rutherford, reportedly anal agony in the case of Franz). Reliable data is not available for Br. Knorr. And, just over two years ago, G.B. member Lloyd Barry was two and a half minutes from the close of his talk entitled "Fighters Against God Will not Prevail" when he fell down and died on the spot in a pain-wracked spasm.
They deserve everything they get, and more.
If they get what I think they should get, even they won't deserve any more, I assure you.
--
Focus
(Just Vengeance! Class)
dungbeetle

<After all, Watchtower FOUNDER Charles Taze Russell was exposed as a NOTORIOUS PEDOPHILE both in COURT and in the "Brooklyn Eagle" newspaper,>
you might want to edit your post to delete this unless you can show some evidence. I BELIEVE what you say is true as far as Russell being obsessed with young girls and a good case can be made for it, but that is not quite what you said.
I would be vey interested to hear your thoughts. Incidentally, pedophilia and religious fanaticism seem to go together for some strange reason.
Focus

I stand by my reasonably-formed opinion.
Per the American Heritage Dictionary,
pedophile, n.
An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children
Well, Russell was an adult at the time in question. So, was he sexually attracted to a child? Note from the definition that I do not have to prove he had intercourse with one to show he was a pedophile. I can't prove sexual intercourse. But I can and will prove sexual attraction to a child. Note that in the place concerned (Pennsylvania, U.S.A.) and at that time (1880s and 1890s) all those under 21 counted as children. By the way, I would use a narrower definition of child as one who is legally incapable of giving valid sole (i.e. without that of a parent or guardian too) consent to his or her own marriage. Society changes, and now the term pedophile would certainly not be applied today to someone who had the hots for an 18-year old!
Russell was a man of money, power and fame, and was not hesistant to misuse any of these towards his own ends. It is undisputed that he packed off the star witness on a ship to Australia! One has therefore to read between the lines a little. Remember how the Brooklyn Eagle referred to his Bethel, complete with underage girls, as being a harem. Russell sued them for libel over this and other statements. Russell lost absolutely, despite the burden of proof falling on the paper and his having as his star assistant a man who had been a Judge (well, for a few days). Also, had even one of the Eagle's statements been held to be false, his action would have succeeded.
What follows are extracts from the Russell v. Russell separation action. Note that while Rose Ball had attained the age of consent, the servant girl into whose room Russell used to creep and then lock himself in had not. She was a CHILD, PERIOD.. "Fear The Lord!" indeed. Who was the discreet slave, one need not ask.
ATTORNEY: The last year you were on Clifton Avenue, how many employees would be at the Watch Tower on Arch Street?
MRS RUSSELL: Oh. half a dozen or so.
ATTORNEY: With whom did they board or live?
MRS RUSSELL: They had their home with us.
ATTORNEY: When did you have your first material disagreement with your husband?
MRS RUSSELL: The first serious trouble with my husband was what you stated this morning, the first indignity with this woman who was in the office and in our home [Objected to]
ATTORNEY: We don't mean to charge adultery. You don't mean by that your husband was guilty of adultery?
MRS RUSSELL: No..
ATTORNEY: What was the name of the girl?
MRS RUSSELL: Rose Ball.
ATTORNEY: That is the girl you spoke of a few moments ago?
MRS RUSSELL: Yes, sir.
ATTORNEY: How long had she been with you before this trouble arose?
MRS RUSSELL: She came to us in about 1884.
ATTORNEY: That would be just about the time you moved on to Clifton Avenue?
MRS RUSSELL: No, we moved on to Clifton Avenue in 1883. It was about 1889 [sic] when she came, just shortly after we moved to Clifton Avenue.
ATTORNEY: Did she live with you?
MRS RUSSELL: Yes, sir.
ATTORNEY: How long did she live with you?
MRS RUSSELL: She was with us for about ten or eleven years - oh, she was with us about twelve years.
ATTORNEY: Just state what you observed about your husband's conduct with this girl in your presence in your home.
MRS RUSSELL: Previous to this time my husband had suggested to me the idea of separation, and he said if I would agree to a separation, he would give me the house in which we were living. He said we were incompatible.
ATTORNEY: When was that?
MRS RUSSELL: That was shortly before this objection was made, about 1893. We were still living on Clifton Avenue..
ATTORNEY: I want you to tell us what your husband did in company with this woman Rose, in your presence and in your home.
MRS RUSSELL: In the first place, I considered it.. [Objected to by Mr Russell's attorney]
ATTORNEY: Tell us what you saw and what he said and what was done.
MRS RUSSELL: One evening I spent the evening downstairs, and our library and our bedroom were next to each other upstairs on the second floor, and I spent the evening downstairs reading, and I went upstairs about ten o'clock to my room, and I supposed that he was either in the library or had retired, and when I went up there I found that he was in neither place, and I stepped out in the hall, and I found that he was in his night robe, sitting beside Miss Ball's bed and she was in bed. On other occasions I found him going in there and I found she called him in and said she wasn't well and wanted him in, and I objected to this, and I said that it was highly improper, and I said 'We have people about the house, and what kind of a name will be attached to this house if you do that kind of thing?' and he got angry.
ATTORNEY: You state that you found him doing this at other times. How often after that?
MRS RUSSELL: I found him a number of times, I don't remember how often.
ATTORNEY: In her room?
MRS RUSSELL: Yes, sir. And I found him in the servant girl's room as well, and I found him locked in the servant girl's room.
ATTORNEY: Did he make any explanation why he was in the girl's room?
MRS RUSSELL: No, he did not; he just got angry.
ATTORNEY: What did you say to him about this conduct, and what did he say?
MRS RUSSELL: I said to him, 'We have a great work on our hands' and I said 'in this work you and I have to walk very circumspectly before the world, and if you are going to do things like this, what will happen? Suppose you are all right, don't you suppose people will talk about things like this?' and I said, 'I am not satisfied with it' and he said he wasn't going to be ruled by me. But I felt distressed about that.
ATTORNEY: What did Rose do at the Watch Tower?
MRS RUSSELL: She attended to the correspondence.
ATTORNEY: Where was her desk with reference to the desk of Mr. Russell of the Watch Tower Society?
MRS RUSSELL: It wasn't near his; it was in the office.
ATTORNEY: When would he go to the Watch Tower, in the morning?
MRS RUSSELL: I don't remember; he generally went down alone.
ATTORNEY: Who would return with him?
MRS RUSSELL: She came with him in the evenings, and they came home about eleven o'clock and the young men that were in the office - she was the only girl, and the young men would go home, and he wouldn't allow her to go home with them, and she must wait and always go with him. [Objected to by Mr Russell's attorney]
ATTORNEY: I want the mere fact. Did this girl Rose go home with your husband?
MRS RUSSELL: Yes, sir.
ATTORNEY: And the young men came home ahead of them?
MRS RUSSELL: Yes, sir.
ATTORNEY: State to the Court and jury what talk, if any, you had with this girl Rose, in regard to her relations with your husband, which you communicated to your husband. [Objected to by Mr Russell's attorney]
ATTORNEY: We propose to prove by the witness upon the stand that the plaintiff after observing the conduct as stated by her, of her husband with Rose Ball, she went to the girl and secured from her statement that Mr. Russell at various times embraced and kissed her; that he called her his little wife and jelly-fish, and told that a man's heart was so big he could love a dozen women, but a woman's heart was so small she could only love properly one man: that after receiving this statement from Rose Ball, the plaintiff told her husband that, and he admitted that is was true. [Objected to by Mr Russell's attorney, but overruled]
COURT: We will not permit you to show what Rose Ball told her. We will permit you to show that she went to her husband and told him that Rose Ball had told her that he was keeping her and telling her she was his dear little wife, and that he said that is was true.
ATTORNEY: You understood the ruling of the Court? You are to tell what you stated to your husband that Rose had said, and his reply to you.
MRS RUSSELL: I told him that I had learned something that was very serious, and I didn't tell him right away. I let a day elapse, until I felt I had control of myself and would talk, and then I told him that I had something very serious to tell him about this matter, and he said: 'What is it?' and I said, 'Rose has told me that you have been very intimate with her, that you have been in the habbit of hugging and kissing her and having her sit on your knee and fondling each other, and she tells me you bid her under no account to tell me, but she couldn't keep it any longer. She said if I was distressed about it she felt she would have to come and make a confession to me, and she has done that.'
COURT: What did he say?
MRS RUSSELL: He tried to make light of it first, and I said, 'Husband, you can't do that. I know the whole thing. She has told me straight, and I know it to be true.' Well, he said he was very sorry: it was true, but he was sorry. He said he didn't mean any harm. I said, 'I don't see how you could do an act like that without meaning harm.'
COURT: What year was that?
MRS RUSSELL: In the fall of 1894.
ATTORNEY: Did you state to your husband at this meeting any endearing terms?
MRS RUSSELL: Yes, sir.
ATTORNEY: What were they?
MRS RUSSELL: I said, 'She tells me that one evening when you came home' - I asked her when did these things occur. I said to him, 'She says they occurred down at the office when she stayed down there with him in the evenings after the rest had gone, and at home at any time when I wasn't around.'
ATTORNEY: Now, about the endearing terms.
MRS RUSSELL: She said one evening when she came with him, just as she got inside the hall, it was late in the evening, about eleven o'clock, he put his arms around her and kissed her. This was in the vestibule before they entered the hall, and he called her his little wife, but she said, 'I am not your wife,' and he said, 'I will call you daughter, and a daughter has nearly all the privileges of a wife.'
ATTORNEY: And what other terms were used?
MRS RUSSELL: Then he said, 'I am like a jelly-fish. I float around here and there. I touch this one and that one, and if she responds, I take her to me, and if not, I float on to others,' and she wrote that out so that I could remember it for sure when I would speak to him about it. And he confessed that he said those things. [Mr Russell's attorney seeks to strike out the testimony of Mrs Russell in relation to misconduct between Mr. Russell and Rose Ball, on the technical ground that Mrs Russell had stated she had discovered this in 1894, but the libel complains only of offences beginning in 1897]
COURT: You have not mentioned that in the libel. I will grant the motion and strike out that testimony. You must begin your testimony about seven or eight years ago..
ATTORNEY: This suit was brought by you in April 1903, and we will be compelled to confine the testimony to what has happened subsequent to April, 1896, a few days one way or the other is not material.
COURT: We will allow you leeway of a year if you want.
ATTORNEY: Begin in January, 1896. Did Mr. Russell and you ever discuss this Rose Ball matter after say January 1, 1896, did it ever come up?
MRS RUSSELL: Yes, sir.
ATTORNEY: What was said by you or your husband in relation to this girl Rose after January 1, 1896, and where? [Objected to by Russell's attorney on the grounds that it being an attempt to reintroduce the time-excluded testimony. In this way, relying on the technicality that the misconduct with Rose Ball had occurred too long ago, Russell managed to get the evidence re Rose Ball suppressed.]
- Pennsylvania Superior Court Reports, Russell vs. Russell; April 26 1906, vol. 37 (Paper Book of Appellant No. 202), with Mr Porter as the Attorney for Mrs Maria Russell (the appellant) and C.T.Russell the Respondent.
Mrs Russell's account was believed, else in those days she would not have been granted a divorce. Russell's appeal to the Judge to overturn the verdict also failed.
This account was repeated and added to in the Brooklyn Daily Eagle newspaper of October 29, 1911:
"GIRL KISSED PASTOR AND SAT ON HIS KNEE But Mr. Russell at the Tabernacle: Only Submitted to it to be Kind. MAY HAVE FELT HER PULSE He Sometimes Ministered to the Sick, Locked in Another Girls Room Innocently (Special to The Eagle) Pittsburg, October 27 - The suit for a separation brought by Martha [sic] F. Russell against Charles Taze Russell, her husband, popularly known as Pastor Russell, who has just entered a libel suit against The Brooklyn Eagle, is remembered here as one of the most sensational court proceedings in the history of Allegheny County. Pastor Russell's Advertising methods had already attracted a good deal of attention to himself, and while many referred to him as 'the crank preacher of Allegheny,' his unusual lectures and effective publicity methods drew good-sized crowds to his Bible House on Arch Street. When the fact that Pastor Russell's wife was suing him for a separation became public much general interest was aroused and the courtroom was thronged during the proceedings. The testimony which elicited the most comment concerned the relations of Pastor Russell with Rose Ball, a young woman stenographer employed by Pastor Russell in the Bible House on Arch Street. This testimony was given by Mrs. Russell on direct examination on Thursday, April 26, 1906. It was ruled out by the court on the ground that the incidents to which reference was made were said to have occurred on a date which precedes the dates mentioned in Mrs. Russell's bill of complaint. Pastor Russell referred to the incidents when he went on the stand several days later, and gave his version of what had happened. Rose Ball was not called to the stand, as she left for Australia shortly before the case came to trial. The verbatim record of this testimony taken from the official report of the case on file in the office of the Prothonotary of Allegheny County is as follows .. Pastor's Wife Tells of His Alleged Nightly Visits .. Mrs. Russell Says Girl Told Her of Pastor's Caresses".
Final judgement in Mrs Russell's favor was granted in 1908.
Sorry, dungbeetle, I can't produce the Biblical two witnesses. They are all dead now, and Russell had suborned, scared off or sent away the witnesses while they were alive.
I take it I have "passed".
--
Focus
(Anti-PEDOPHILES Class)
Edited by - Focus on 19 July 2002 0:3:53
pomegranate

Joel 3:3
3 They cast lots for my people
and traded boys for prostitutes;
they sold girls for wine
that they might drink.

Deut 32:28
They are a nation without sense,
there is no discernment in them.
Deut 32:32
32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom
and from the fields of Gomorrah.

Ps 106:39
39 They defiled themselves by what they did;
by their deeds they prostituted themselves.

Jer 2:23
23 "How can you say, 'I am not defiled;
I have not run after the Baals'?

Ezek 23:37
they even sacrificed their children,

Ezek 23:38-39
39 On the very day they sacrificed their children to their idols,

Ezek 36:17
Their conduct was like a woman's monthly uncleanness in my sight.

Matt 21:16
16 "Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him.

Ezek 36:13
people say to you, "You devour men and deprive your nation of its children,"

Ezek 36:12
you will never again deprive them of their children.

Mark 10:14
He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them,

Luke 18:16-17
16...Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

Ezek 37:25-28
They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.'"
Pork Chop

Once again we can see how someone can make an absolute fool out of themselves by playing math games. It's always amazing to me that some people actually sign on for this nonsense.
Focus

Chop, run along and eat yourself. I don't shoot at fish in barrels or lame pork trolls on chopping boards.
Those with brains, click here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_2114000/2114510.stm
to read the tragic story screened on BBC Panorama several days ago, of the jW child sex-victim Alison Cousins, who was trained, taught and told NEVER to take your brother to court - even in cases of SERIOUS CRIME, in her reasonably-arrived-at perception.
Exactly as I stated was the understanding common among jWs. After all, to bring God's name into disrepute through a criminal charge against a Brother would be worse than in a mere civil matter, wouldn't it? Jehovah's name would be more sullied, wouldn't it? Surely that is how a child would reason.
Now click here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=3035&site=3
and read how, when I made this EXACT SAME CLAIM here in this forum FIVE HUNDRED DAYS AGO, and provided ample evidence (from Watchtower published literature and from Society directives to Bodies of Elders) to support my contention, I was immediately attacked, vilified and ridiculed by a number of JW SPIRITUAL*PIMPS* here, prominent among whom were the moronic Xandit and that particularly odious, deceitful, arrogant, depraved, repulsive, ludicrously legalistic and thoroughly disgusting Jehovah's Witness "F iend" - aided by several others who have since "switched sides", developed poor memories or have vanished entirely (to save some red faces, I won't provide all the links to threads where the assassinations were attempted, or name any names).
So, am I seeking Persecution Points? Most assuredly not. I AM ILLUSTRATING THE DEPTHS OF THE ARROGANT SELF-DELUSION RIFE AMONG JEHOVAH'S "FOOTSTEP FOLLOWERS" - including a few who claim to have "thrown off the chains"!
The Spiritual Swine Class, confronted or identified on the BBC Panorama Programme, who attempted to justify their, or their Spiritual-Harlot Mother's, Profound Misconduct and Malfeasances and Mischief re Pedophiles, attempted similar legalistic defenses as forwarded by "F iend", Xandit and their ill-begotten tribe of suckers at the Pus-ridden Spiritual-Mammaries of the Great Whore.
These SAME arguments were shown to be bogus and without merit, conclusively, on air. They are the legalistic hair-splitting of Pedophile-Enablers. Admittedly, a multimedia video programme has more degrees of freedom than I, arguing sequentially as I had too in a purely textual format and with a morally deceitful rogue (and followers) who used many a ruse to subvert, hijack and confuse.
He lost all the same, and with various weak croaks departed.
Those of you who argue that "F iend" helpfully showed you the technique of argumentation have deluded yourselves. Do you NEED to learn how to cheat and lie? Do you NEED to learn how to combat those who do? The answers are No and No (the second "No" because all you need to do is keep telling the unexaggerated Truth, and you will eventually win).
That creature is a FOUL SPIRITUAL-PIMP and, by attempting ANY defense of the Watchtower, serves as a PEDOPHILE-ENABLER... unfortunately, we are not living in a Theocratic world, else I could tell you what needed to be done, couldn't I?
And I place indirect responsibility for at least one of the child victims named in the programme and follow-up discussion at his door. Had he not been verbally-pimping here, resources to save them might have been employed in the field.
If he is a well-wisher in disguise, well, he is VERY misguided and should KILL off the alter-identity and hide his head in shame.
If he is what he appears to be: well, I would not recommend suicide (though he has the freedom to act as he chooses, naturally) - but I would recommend immediate severance of all his contact with the Great Harlot, rather than continuing to Spiritually-Pimp for her while he believes much of what she teaches is false and/or misguided, thereby exacerbating his profound mental illness or wickedness.
And yes, "F iend" should return here and apologize: first to the child victims, humbly begging their forgiveness for his foolishness and nonsense, and then to the whole of j-w.com, and then specifically to me for his foul and unwarranted abuse.
DEVELOPMENTS HAVE SHOWN THAT HE HAS BEEN THOROUGHLY AND "IRRETRIEVABLY"
REFUTED in his effective claim that there was NO perceived sanction against a jW reporting serious wrongdoing by a jW to the "secular" authorities.
So he effectively continues to claim poor silent lamb Alison Cousins was LYING or UNREASONABLE by stating on TV "You should NEVER take your brother to court" - unless he comes forth and admits to his profound error and misconduct.
But FILTHY, DISGUSTING jW SPIRITUAL-RAPISTS like "F iend" are usually not satisfied with the child being sexually molested by one criminal. They want a slice of the action, SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING, for themselves too, by Spiritually-Molesting the victim again, in the fine old style of the Elder Class!
Shame on you, you Filthy, Evil Spiritual-Pervert and "F iend"!
I caution weaker ones from having any dealings with the Spiritually-Syphilitic Class, lest they contract some Mental or Spiritual Disease from such wicked manifestations of uncleanness.
Eph 5:11
"Have no dealings with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."
--
Focus
(PROTECT THE VULNERABLE! Class)
PS: Again:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_2114000/2114510.stm
and
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=3035&site=3

Attn: *SILENTLAMBS*! ONE IN TEN mJW a PEDO!

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