A Request (page 2)

waiting

Dear Friend and SC,

Along with SC, I noticed your comment as well.

Along with SC, may I please add my request that you claify your statement, as in SC's questions?

waiting

puppylove

Just to throw in my thoughts here....

It's not so much that "the Society" has changed it's views on this issue (or any issue), it's how they deal with those who do not agree with the "current" stance on those views.

How can you claim to be God's channel of communication on Earth, disfellowship someone for apostacy for not following the Bible according to your interpretation, THEN CHANGE YOUR VIEW ON THE ISSUE?

marion_nett

Friend:

You said:

There are others besides Jehovah’s Witnesses that are also encouraging the spread of the good news of God’s Kingdom.

What exactly IS that "good news" of the Kingdom that the others spread?

In addition, is it the "good news" of JEHOVAH's kingdom through Christ, or of some other God's Kingdom (i.e., trinitarian god, or duality - as the LDS believe)?

Friend

To All

Several have requested clarification of the following statement by me

I also do not believe that association with the Society is necessary for gaining God’s approval. There are others besides Jehovah’s Witnesses that are also encouraging the spread of the good news of God’s Kingdom.

To a large extent Jesus’ disciples do little more than make the good news of God’s Kingdom available by means of getting plenty of Bibles out to those not having them and encouraging that they be read and considered. Doing those two simple things is a great service to those in need of good news and it is in fact spreading the good news via spreading the raw message found in the Bible.

In most cases we teach more with our actions than our words. Down through the ages and eve today there are a lot of very loving and kind Christian people that have done those things mentioned above. From what we know of Jesus, he recognizes that they too are spreading the good news.

A basic question has been asked, "What message of good news?" I think the notion is that unless the message is in completely harmonious with what Jesus taught as the good news of God’s Kingdom that it cannot be a spreading of the good news. The problem with that view is that the Bible does not paint the same picture. For instance, after Jesus’ resurrection but prior to his ascension his followers still had misconceptions about God’s Kingdom. (See Acts 1:6-8) Interestingly Jesus did not correct them right away. In fact, we are not sure just how soon thereafter that those disciples fully realized the heavenly aspect of that kingdom and how much in error their thinking was. So, here is the question, what were those Christians teaching? Was it completely accurate? Was it in complete agreement with what Jesus taught as the good news? Did it lead people to Christ?

We know their message could not have been completely accurate regarding the Kingdom, yet they were still preaching. Also, from the biblical record we see that they were yet able to lead many to Christ. That latter point is the crux. Those who have led others to become followers of Christ are sharing in dispensing the good news of God’s Kingdom. Total accuracy is not critical to the outcome either. In fact, our early friends admitted that their understanding of God’s promises was pretty hazy. (See 1 Cor. 13:12)

On another note, I want to make one thing perfectly clear. I am willing to discuss and debate issues. Like everyone else I too have convictions and conclusions about various topics. When addressing those subjects I will offer the evidences that led to my convictions and conclusions. I try to offer those reasons in some logical fashion, but the evidences and final conclusions are usually not unique to me. Please do not mistake of thinking of that as pushing my views. I am doing no less than everyone else, I am sharing. I am just as likely to change any of my views if bases for my conclusions are evidenced to be less than previously considered. I do not look for total agreement. In fact, in some areas—especially the metaphysical—it is perhaps impossible to have complete agreement at this time.

Friend

Scorpion

Friend,

Thank you for your response, but you have failed once again to answer the questions posed.

I will once again ask just one question so as to make it easy for you.

When you spoke of (others) encouraging the spreading of the good news of the Kingdom, what (others) where you refering to besides Jehovah's Witnesses?

When you answer this question, I will pose the others asked. Please answer in a paragraph or less so your answer will not be confused with something off the topic of the question asked.

Thank You

Friend

SC

When you spoke of (others) encouraging the spreading of the good news of the Kingdom, what (others) where you referring to besides Jehovah's Witnesses?

Anyone doing what I described. (Is that concise enough?)

I am not sure, but it appears you are expecting that I should name some group or groups of people, perhaps naming religions or something. I think people can exhibit the Christian behavior I described and act in concert (or not) with a multitude of Christian religions. For example, there are undoubtedly persons in the Catholic faith that are genuinely concerned about following Jesus. Along the way whenever they encourage other persons to consider the Bible then they are helping to spread the good news of God’s Kingdom. That may be a very raw form of doing so, but it is still a contribution to that end.

Friend

marion_nett

. For instance, after Jesus’ resurrection but prior to his ascension his followers still had misconceptions about God’s Kingdom. (See Acts 1:6-8) Interestingly Jesus did not correct them right away. In fact, we are not sure just how soon thereafter that those disciples fully realized the heavenly aspect of that kingdom and how much in error their thinking was. So, here is the question, what were those Christians teaching? Was it completely accurate? Was it in complete agreement with what Jesus taught as the good news? Did it lead people to Christ?

Interesting ... So, in other words, Jesus's appointed apostles and disciples also actually manifested this same "blinking light", as many call it, ...??

Does this mean, then, that they are guilty of the same "crime" the Watchtower Society is being so maligned for by many on this board?

(I'll duck now ...)

marion_nett

P.S. Don't get me wrong, folks. The final count is not in (in my book) on this blood matter. And I also have issues regarding child baptism (and consequent shunning when they manifest the "foolishness of youth" ...), birthdays (not that I care personally, especially as the years tick by!), and a few other matters; however, I am not interested in condemning or turning my back on the Organization that taught me about Jehovah God in the first place, and of his Kingdom, as well as the high moral standards (so lacking in the world today) I've learned as on of Jehovah's Witnesses.

marion

Carmel

Friend,

It remains to be accepted by myself as well as others whether or not you have "accomodated" the two "apparent" divergent ideas. It may be possible through hypothetical polemic to accomodate them, but to do so is comparable to placing ones head firmly beneath the sand by ignoring the vast "common understanding" prevalent amongst the body of Witnesses. Again, the apologetics do not wash when the weight of evidence contradicts them.

carmel

Friend

carmel

It may be possible through hypothetical polemic to accommodate them, but to do so is comparable to placing ones head firmly beneath the sand by ignoring the vast "common understanding" prevalent amongst the body of Witnesses. Again, the apologetics do not wash when the weight of evidence contradicts them.

If you will please note, I have offered no hypotheticals. If you feel otherwise then please evidence your assertion.

The issue you address is really quite simple; do those two different ideas oppose or accommodate each other. From evidence presented so far, those who accept both ideas as genuine expressions see the accommodation. Those who feel one idea is suspect see only contradiction, that is opposition.

The different between the two perspectives boils down to this. 1) Those seeing the accommodation are not giving any more or less credence to one idea than the other. They are not working off preconceived ideas as if one statement is believable and other unbelievable. 2) Conclusions from both camps admittedly are that the rank and file JWs believe that others besides Jehovah’s Witnesses will survive Armageddon. That latter point has been yielded already—which is one of your concerns raised, that is common understanding. (See quotes below) Well, they all got that conclusion from somewhere. Has anyone else offered any legitimate source of such a belief for a group of people so kowtowed to the Society? The only explanation on the table is the one I have offered.

Xandit said:

Just to throw an extraneous comment in here on the basic subject. I've made it a point to ask a considerable number of Witnesses if they thought only Witnesses would survive Armageddon, so far not one has said yes. It's certainly not a scientific survey but I've asked old, young, male, female, zealot, hangers on, pioneers, publishers, elders, etc. and gotten essentially the same answer from all of them. If that's what's being taught I don't think it's taking.

Frenchy agreed with Xandit’s informal poll:

You mentioned in another thread that of all the Witnesses that you had questioned on this subject told you they were not under that impression. I believe you completely in this regard. Most Witnesses do not believe this nonsense but the fact remains that this is what the Society teaches. Your C.O. knows about that article and he knows what the Society is, and has been, pushing for decades on the matter. Ask him.

Interestingly, in Frenchy’s confirmation he neglected to explain where those JWs learned what they believe, that others besides JWs would survive Armageddon. Though he agreed that that was a fairly common believe, without so much as a shred of evidence shrugs off that that belief could come from their impression of the Society’s teachings.

Friend

A Request

Share this