Are the disassociated NOT to be shunned now?

by comment 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  comment

  Rado Vleugel pointed out on another thread that the current response to "Do you shun former members?" on the jw-media.org site represents a more hardline viewpoint as far as treatment of disfellowshipped family members. Once it said, "Disfellowshipping does not sever family ties." Now it cites the scripture in 1 Corinthians: "Quit mixing with them."

  However, there's been another noteworthy change in wording in the response to this question. And this one, on the surface, seems to provide a loophole for those who DISASSOCIATE themselves rather than being DISFELLOWSHIPPED.

  http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm

  The previous response began: "Those who simply CEASE TO BE INVOLVED IN the faith are not shunned."

  The current response begins: "Those who simply LEAVE the faith are not shunned."

  Is there not a significant difference between ceasing to be involved and leaving?

  "Ceasing to be involved" could describe an inactive Witness who no longer participates in the field ministry or goes to meetings, for instance.

  That person, however, has not LEFT the faith from the standpoint of the congregation. After being inactive for several years, he could return to his former activities without having to go through the reinstatement process. (Obviously his "congregation privileges" and so forth would be affected, but the point is that he'd still be considered a Witness when he walked back into the Kingdom Hall.)

  "Leaving," though, would seem to apply to one who VOLUNTARILY SEVERS TIES with the organization. You're not "leaving" if you're disfellowshipped; you're kicked out! And I've already touched on why being inactive does not equal leaving. So this sounds as if it applies to someone who disassociates himself.

  So, then, are disassociated people not to be shunned, while disfellowshipped ones are?

  It is, of course, possible that this is just an instance of sloppy phrasing by whoever wrote the answer to this question. But you would think that the Society would take great care to get the right phrasing on this particular point.

  Thoughts?

  comment
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  DakotaRed

  They may word things so as to show an easing of sanctions, but rest assured, DA'd ones are shunned and will continue to be.

  Lew W
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  comment

  Then if the policy of shunning the disassociated does not change, I think this phrase should be given wide publicity to highlight the WTS's deceptiveness.

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  Bodhisattva

  The context clearly indicates that only those who are disfellowshipped are shunned. As such it is probably a lie in the form of theocratic warfare, however it intrigues me given a situation in my family. The downside is that it could open up the disassociated to being disfellowshipped for not following the Watchtower's puritanical rules. Of course the rules cited would be unobjectionable to most people, who would agree that "drunkenness, adultery, and stealing" are 'bad.' Note that they do not say 'alcoholism,' which the general public recognizes as a disease, but 'drunkenness,' something that all 'good' people, including recovering alcoholics, should avoid. Was Clinton raised a witness, because I suspect that there are lawyers who also have English degrees and can't parse so deceptively.
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  dmouse

  It is more deception I'm afraid, meant to lull members of the public into thinking Witnesses are reasonable.

  The latest Kingdom Ministry on this issue states in paragraph 1:

  'First, let us review what the Bible says on this subject, the principles of which apply equally to those who are disfellowshipped and to those who disassociate themselves'
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  Reborn2002

  dmouse:

  It is more deception I'm afraid, meant to lull members of the public into thinking Witnesses are reasonable.

  EXACTLY SO!

  The very purpose of Watchtower PR is to project the image that the Jehovah's Witness organization is moderate and reasonable, so as to lure potential recruits.

  The reality of the matter is far different.
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  comment

  Thanks for pointing that out, dmouse.

  They really should be hammered for their deceptiveness.

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  Reborn2002

  If the WTBTS went through so much trouble so as to alter the phrasing on their media website to avoid obvious contradictions, such as the recent change discussed here:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32638&site=3

  one would think that they would make other necessary changes to their website that demonstrate more GLARING contradictions in their statements to the public.

  I posted this information once before several months ago, but with the WT recently updating and changing their website, and with the influx of newbies to this site since then, I felt it necessary to publicize and rehash the material.

  The Live Forever in Paradise on Earth book was one of the most popular Jehovah's Witness publications for quite some time, and it was used as the main study guide for MANY who got baptized. Although it is no longer in heavy circulation, I am QUITE certain that there are millions of copies of this book floating around worldwide. The rest of my family remain Jehovah's Witnesses, and ALL of them have this book in their library.

  As of July 2002, on the Jehovah's Witness official media website, they still state the following, found here:

  http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm

  Source: Jehovah's Witness Official Public Relations Website Frequently Asked Questions

  http://www.jw.media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm

  Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

  No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.-Matthew 7:1-5. John 5:22, 27.

  [bolding mine for emphasis]

  Which of course directly contradicts the doctrine stated in the Live Forever book, also published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, which states:

  Source: You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth (1982,1990) pg.255

  Do not conclude that their are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization--God's visible organization-- that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal . . . . You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life...

  [bolding mine for emphasis]

  I wonder why the nitwits in the WT Legal, Writing, and Internet Departments have not rectified such OBVIOUS hypocricy found within their own statements?

  Newbies, you can find this information and much more at a website which quotes ONLY Watchtower Society publications VERBATIM.

  Go to:

  http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/

  Time and time again the Watchtower Society contradicts themselves in their own doctrine and literature.

  Educate yourself, so as not to be deceived!

  Edited by - Reborn2002 on 20 July 2002 13:46:37
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  onacruse

  Ah, yes, how we ply the narrow channel between perception and reality! "Those who simply leave the faith are not shunned." Officially, perhaps not, but in reality, yes. And then there is the unrevealed but increasingly common consequence of "leaving the faith," namely, the elders come after you and assert that by willful inactivity you have disassociated yourself, and then the shunning DOES begin. Or, as in my case, to avoid that classification, you begin attending again. THEN the elders form an "investigative committee" to determine (now that you are reactivated) whether you are harboring apostate opinions. Obviously you are guilty of that, for otherwise why would you have deliberately gone inactive? Damned if you stay, damned if you leave.

  What a tangled web they weave.
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  Elsewhere

  Reborn2002,

  You have to read the web sites comment more carefully

  .

  It says: "Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life"

  This is a true statement from the standpoint of a JW. Anyone who was around BEFORE the WTS was formed has a chance of surviving.

  The statement continues: "Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness."

  This is a round-about way of way of saying that for someone to survive today; they will have to become a JW. (Reference your reference Live Forever Book)

  A few months ago the WT had an article about being "technically accurate, yet misleading". Perhaps the person who wrote the text of the web site needs to review the article.

  Edited by - Elsewhere on 20 July 2002 13:55:16