Cheney on the way out?

by teejay 21 Replies latest jw friends

Francois

I guess JT pulls a good leg, huh?
Dakota, I too was raised in the south. I went through the usual youthful idealism, Churchill-like. Then, as I graduated up the income ladder and saw how much of my money was being confiscated for programs which I didn't support, but opposed, I had my own personal ephiphany about left-leaning politics. And today, I just absolutely despise anything left of center. It's a fraud bordering on outright sin. And the fact that it's a damnable lie designed to keep certain men in power is so obvious, I don't see how people don't see through it.
I listen to Daschle and Gephardt and those people scare me to death. I understand that there is a giant push on to defeat Dashle in the upcoming election. I think I ought to drop everything and rush up to Dakota and help. Are you up there now?
francois
teejay

Jesus Christ (gotta love *that* username!),
Your synopsis would be funny if it weren't so on-target. Oh, hell... it's funny, anyway! Lost to a dead man, huh? Gotta love it.
I also think it's funny how people come out to denounce the (socialist?) Democrats of the previous administration whenever acts of malfeasance of those currently in office come to light.
Of course, they all do that but Dubya seems to have fine-tuned this skill into a high art. That's not to even mention of *his* shenanigans as an "oil man." What a joke.
DakotaRed

Actually, Francois, I'm in Washington State. What amazes me, is that everyone I know and speak to out here are Conservatives. Yet, the Democrats keep winning the elections. Washington is one of I believe 4 states still without a State Income Tax. Yet, almost every year, the Democrats try to have one instituted, despite enormous amounts of money left over each year in the States coffers. Voters recently revolted against the States charges on license fees for vehicles. The state added an excise tax to each vehicle. My Dakota was costing me about $350 a year to license. It is now down to a more sensible $50 a year.
So, what does Washington do to offset the difference? They recently pushed through the highest tax in the nation on tobacco. Not to defend tobacco companies, but who are they going after to get the money? The tobacco companies don't pay it. Wealthy corporations don't pay it nor do any but smokers. And, just who really are the majority of smokers? Lower income people, that's who. But, they claim to be for the lower income and want to take away from the wealthy. It's all smoke and mirrors and people just won't take notice.
I really don't mind helping out those who need it, but when I look at my paycheck and see that nearly one third of it disappears with deductions, the majority of which is some form of tax, I think maybe I should be the one on welfare. But, I'm healthy and have always worked and really don't want anything from the Government, other than to be left alone.
Hmmm, I wonder if I could get away with a letter of Diassociation from them too?
Lew W
Francois

Several points in response to your execellent post, Dakota.
First, I live in Georgia. We have an ad valorem tax on automobiles. I've already got a Florida driver's license because I refused to give the state my thumbprint. Next, I'm registering both my vehicles in Florida. The ad valorem tax on a new auto can be hundreds of dollars a year!! Not in FL, however.
Georgia didn't have any sales tax because we had an income tax. Now, via local option sales taxes by the individual counties, we've got BOTH taxes. Bastards. I'm thinking about running against Cynthia McKinney if I can get the support of the Libertarian Party. But not this year, next.
CORPORATIONS DON'T PAY TAXES. Corporations merely collect tax money from their customers just like they collect all the other expenses of production from their customers. Then they pass it to the government as "corporate tax." And the public buys this bullshit from the left that we need to increase corporation taxes. How stupid can the public be? Pretty stupid I guess. And that's the reason our education system is going in the crapper. The government wants ignorant citizens so that it can continue to pull the wool over the public's eyes. Plus, you can't demand rights you don't know you've got. In a street interview conducted in downtown Atlanta, about 90% of the people interviewed thought the bill of rights was some kind of communist conspiracy. "Never work in this country," one young black man said. "Too radical."
Your point about tobacco is well taken. It's the same everywhere. Over here in Georgia, we have some of the highest taxes on beer in the country. Who drinks beer? Mainly it's the working man's drink. And let me hasten to add that the democrat party has been in control of this state since reconstruction. And as with physical deformity resulting from incestuous relationships, we've got the most god-awful laws in this state you can imagine as a result of the political inbreeding going on in this state for the last hundred and forty years. Yet the ignorant farmers in the state keep putting those fucking democrats in office. Did you know you can't buy a 6-pack of beer at any convenience store in this state on Sunday? Shit - you can even do THAT in Ala-fucking-bama. Or in North-fucking-Carolina.
AND we have the lottery here. Shit, you can't even get to the damned convenience store of a Saturday evening to buy a loaf of bread because the po' folks are lined up six deep at the counter buying those lottery tickets baby. The lottery is a tax on people who can't do math. Any time I'm in the mood to purchase a lottery ticket, I just drive by a 7-11 and throw ten dollars out the window.
And you know the most frustrating part? I'd leave this country in a heart beat if I could find someplace better. Some place that would just leave me the fuck alone. But I can't find any place like that. With one exception. Ireland. Ireland doesn't tax the income from artists, including writers. I'm working on my first book right now. If it's a hit (which is like hoping to win the lottery), I'm off to Ireland. Screw this place and it's political correctness.
I know you remember life in the 50s Dakota, do you remember the government being this insatiable octopus on the Potomac with it's hand in your pocket and it's nose in your business? I swear to god, I'm ready to go to Oz and disappear in the outback (after stealing someone's wife, that is. Har)
Pant, pant. I just gotta make this book go so I can get outta here. I need a change real bad.
f
teejay

My goodness, Frank. Your post was all over the place!
First you point out that in GA corporations aren't taxed but are trusted to pass tax monies they receive from the sale of their products on to the gov't. Are you saying that's a good thing? Then you comment on how your education system is "going in the crapper." I don't know, but I see an obvious connection between those two facts.
You rant about the lottery your state has, no doubt a direct result of the lack of revenue due in part to corporations not being taxed. (Go figure.) You lament that -- come Saturday evening -- you're not able to buy a loaf of bread from the convenience store because of the lines of "po' folks [who] are lined up six deep at the counter buying those lottery tickets."
I'm curious: If not from wealthy entities like corporations and not from those at the opposite end of the economic scale (the aforementioned "po' folks"), from where would you advise your state government to get revenue to run itself? I mean, how are y'all to pay for the construction and maintenance of roads and bridges; fire and police depts.; your "crappy" educational system; etc.?
On your point of tobacco being taxed, I say, "good!!!" Smokers SHOULD be taxed, considering the harm (air and environmental pollution) they inflict on non-smokers. Same with those (like me) who indulge in spirited drink. Is it only beer that is taxed or alcohol in general? I'm thinking it's alcohol. If so, then I think those who indulge in a particular activity are the ones who should pay for it. (Sorry that you can't buy beer on Sundays. Arkansas has that law, too. Bummer for them, and you. I'll have a brewski in your honor!! )
>> Pant, pant. I just gotta make this book go so I can get outta here. I need a change real bad.
We agree on this, at least. My god, Man! You need to get outta there!!
p.s. Btw, any comment on the mess Cheney seems to be in?
Francois

Well TJ you've managed to mangle most of my post. Some of it does indeed reference the state of Georgia. However the corporate tax observation is universal. If you don't think that, say, Ford Motors doesn't factor taxes into the cost of automobiles, then I'd be suspicous that you've got a public school education yourself. They certainly don't take money out of "profit" and pay taxes. And "trust" doesn't have anything to do with it. You think Ford's got some option as to whether it's going to pay corporate income tax? That tax comes right out of your pocket, not Ford's.
Your second paragraph, since you've misunderstood my post so thoroughly, is irrelevant.
The state of Georgia, I'm certain I mentioned, has an income tax, sales taxes of various kinds, intangible taxes, ad valorem taxes on damn near everything, it operates two deep water ports (we're on the coast, y'know) taxes alcohol, cigarettes, and every other thing the "little guy" views as staple, the state of Georgia even taxes groceries for crissake, and some medical items. You obviously haven't been to Atlanta in some time, or you weren't paying attention. We've got one of the largest outdoor parking lots in I-285, I-20, I-75, I-85, I-675, I-575 you've ever seen, plus we have the busiest airport in the world, and a state lottery, not to mention a hotel/motel tax, and god knows what else. The state of Georgia is rolling in revenue. What the hell are YOU talking about?
And what do you mean about "people who engage in a particular activity should pay for it?" Aside from the fact that your statement is utterly ludicrous, there is absolutely NO excuse for a six-pack of beer that would cost you $3.50 in Ohio costing $7.95 in Georgia, all of the overage in various taxes. Let's hear it for the party of the average working man.
And you're right on the money, brother, there is a disconnect between what we're being taxed and the quality of our educational system, not just here, but in the entire country as the comprehension level displayed in your post so dramatically illustrates. You must be a socialist.
francois
Edited to add P.S. - Cheney? What's he done that they all haven't done, including Daschle, Gephardt, Byrd, Franks and the rest of 'em? And I don't even want to start on Bill Clinton, the most corrupt president this country has ever had, bar none, including Nixon.
Edited by - Francois on 21 July 2002 17:23:25
DakotaRed

Francois, I am a Native Floridian myself. Howdy neighbor But, I do remember things in the 50s. I also remember the Blue laws from when I was stationed in Ft. Bragg, NC. No alcohol or toys on Sunday at all. I remember one super patriotic seargant I knew tried to buy a small American Flag on Sunday and was denied. He went ballistic!
Out here, we have a sales tax of 7.6% on just about everything but food. Beer and wine can be pruchased in any store, just about, but liquor is sold only in state owned stores that are required to close by 8 P.M. everyday. Good thing I don't drink. While Washington has passed the highest tobacco tax in the country, raising name brands to a little over $5 a pack, I believe, they also went after alcohol and keep raising taxes there too. The latest big push I have heard on what to tax heavily next, is fatty foods, believe it or not. Never mind groceries are already expensive enough.
I might not be quite as far right as you are, but I see much of the ills of this country placed right on Liberalism. When a 6 year old boy is suspended from school and made to attend sexual harrassment classes because he tried to kiss a little girl? When childrens teams are made to play and not keep score because the side that loses might not feel good about it? The list of insanity is endless and just gets worse.
But, too many Republicans also went along with these ideals and compomised themselfs to hopefully get their bills passed later one. Remember all the grief Bush 1 caught over the tax raise after his infamous "No New Taxes?" Never mind it was a tax package proposed and passed by a Democratic Congress that Bush signed. Then, who cried the loudest about it? The Democrats!
I agree with you. It's come time to get rid of the lot of them and replace them with people not adhering to any political party or agenda! If only voters would educate themselves before they punched that ballot.
Lew W
Francois

Lew I'm with you 100%. However, the voters won't do it. They are the product of public schools on the one hand, and beneficiaries of the Marxist tax structure on the other that has only the top income earners paying all the taxes.
Then when there's a tax cut, the Left screams about a tax cut for the weathly. Well, Duuuuuuuuuh, it's a tax cut for the people actually paying the frickin' taxes you bozos, and that doesn't include but 4% of the lowest 50% of the tax base. God, how I despise the Left. Such hypocrites and liars. I think I have more animus toward them than the JWs. At least the JWs are more upfront with their bullshit.
I'd be willing to bet dollars to donut holes that the vast majority of the electorate think that references to Marx mean the BROTHERS.
francois
teejay

You got me chuckling, Frank!
Confession time: I *do* have a public education, such as it is. Guilty!!! I guess, as you say, that explains my incomprehension in your post. I do the best I can. At least *I* knew JT was joking!!!
I hate to apply labeling "ists" to either myself or others, but if I had to I'd say that I was more of a pragmatist than a socialist.
--------
More to the point of what I meant by this thread...
I guess, then, that your view is that Cheney hasn't done anything wrong? And that the growing uproar surrounding his unethical accounting practices while CEO at Halliburton isn't anything to worry about? Or that there isn't a little bit of hypocrisy on his (and the Republicans) pointing to faulty (if not illegal) accounting practices currently being uncovered? Cool.
Damn those bloody Democrats!
btw... when I mentioned your rant about your not being able to buy a loaf of bread on Saturday at the convenience store because of the line of ticket-buying po' folks, you said it was irrelevant and didnt' comment on it. That was *my* point. I think you told on yourself. *hee hee*
Francois

au contraire. I don't think I told on anyone, least of all myself.
My take on Cheney is that I don't think there should be one set of rules for Gephardt and his troup of merry men, like Barney Franks and another for dem mean ol' republicans. If it's sauce for the goose, it's sauce for the gander. Know what I mean? Either stone 'em all, nor stone 'em none.
francois

Cheney on the way out?

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