OH...... POOR WATCHTOWER........EVERYBODY'S PICKING ON THEM.
Interesting Thought
by silentlambs 17 Replies latest jw friends
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Amazing
The WTS always applies good advice to everyone but themselves ... and the reason they do this is that they do not believe they are capable of being in serious error, deserving serious criticism ... thus they have to believe that all criticism must be from Satan, via apostate servants of the devil. In reality, the WTS is in more danger today than any religion in the last several hundered years because they are the epitome of those who stand in the way of truth and freedom of thought.
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Grunt
Cyngus,
You said:
Bill, or anyone else, can you show me where, biblically, the WTS' policy is in error? Can you or anybody else detail the non-Biblical errors of the manner in which the WTS handles child molestation issues?
According to Erica, who was sexually assaulted and abused since the age of four in the state of Washington and then abused in California by another elder, the WTS threatened both the victims and the victim's parents with disfellowshipping if they exposed the errors of the Society in not turning information over to the police in regards to the pervert/elder who was sexually assaulting the little girls in the congregation. He should have been punished not only for what he did to Erica but for what he did to the other children. That didn't happen because of the coverup. They received legal advice from headquarters in New York.
According to the victim's of the pervert/elder in England, they did the same thing. Didn't turn the criminal in, and threatened the victims. They acted on advice from the local headquarters which was going by rules from headquarters in New York.According to the victims in New Hampshire (I believe it was from the seal on the wall behind the DA) who were sexually tortured in a basement for years, the WTS didn't turn the criminal in and threatened the victims. They acted on advice from headquarters in New York.
According to the victims in New Jersey, the WTS didn't turn in the pervert and threatened the victims. They acted on advice from headquarters in New York.
According to the tape of the legal staff at Headquarters in New York, the local elder calling in was told not to get himself in a "Jam" about the abuse, but was to walk away.
According to the tape of the phone discussion with the WTS representative in the UK, the elders should report abuses not to the police, but to THEM, "for the sake of the child" or words to that effect. They would give advice on what to do next. We have seen what that advice would be.
These were investigated by documentary programs and the tapes and scripts are available to anyone who wants to check it out.
In each case the victims wound up wounded, ashamed, disfellowshipped or shunned. If their parents supported them they were punished by the WTS also.
In at least a couple of cases the perverts were wecomed BACK into the cult with open arms and were soon going door to door again without informing the public of what they were. In each case the police had trouble getting the information needed from the elders and in each case local witnesses rallied to the cause of the pervert sometimes with nearly identical responses. This is a system of lies, a pattern of breaking the law, and as the DA said in of the documentaries, it seemed like criminal negligence to him.
If you can't see where this pattern of lies, this lack of love or compassion for the children who were victims, this punishment of the innocent for the sake of protecting a false image, is unbiblical, then there isn't much help for you. You need to re-up as there is room for you at the top. You couldn't be a GREAT TREE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS like these liars, but you might make CHIEFTAIN.
Erica nailed them pretty good with her one word response to JR's press release: Liars.
My biblical response will be limited to one verse: Rev. 22:15
Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.'
The Jehovah's Witnesses have made an idol of the WTS and they bow to it in every detail of their lives. They will embrace and spread whatever lie their idol tells them too. They will disrespect parents, shun children, cover over sin, lie to the law (they don't DESERVE the truth) and do anything else commanded by Brooklyn. This isn't an opinon, it is a documented fact.
Grunt
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Lieu
What it all boils down to...is the meaning of 'witness' . Is an accuser a witness? or is a witness something else?....
"Now in case a soul sins in that he has heard public cursing and he is a witness or he has seen it or HAS COME TO KNOW OF IT, if he does not report it, then he must answer for his error." Ex. 5:1 (NWT)
In Duet...if anyone from WBTS had bothered to continue reading...it goes on to talk about a one witness (they counted the accuser as a witness) accusation which then the older men of the city (actually it says hebrew priests) would have to thoroughly look into the matter as to who has truly been wronged. It says nowhere to IGNORE an issue because only one person said somebody did something to them.
If a woman was dragged out into a field and raped. The Bible says that no one would have heard her screams....there was NO ONE around to come to her resue. She had NO WITNESSES. When they found the rapist....they PUT HIM TO DEATH....and she had no witnesses; but at least they had the damn sense to investigate what happened and take action.
Edited for longwindedness.
Edited by - Lieu on 24 July 2002 12:15:46
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Lieu
Typical JW JC:
Elder1: So brother Christ, you have an issue you wish to state against bro. Nocandowrong? You say he treated you insolently on July 4th? We asked bro Nocandowrong and he has denied this allegation. Do you have any witnesses to this incident?...
Jesus: You know, IN YOUR OWN POLICY, it is written, 'the witness of two men is true'.
Elder2: ...anything besides this would be considered slander, yes we agree to that
Jesus: I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.
Elder3: Your father, is he out in the hallway? (opens the library door and looks) Where is your Father?
Elder1: Is there anyone else who would have witnessed this besides your father?
Elder2: His father, I don't believe I know him....
Elder3: {whispers}....there's nobody out in the hallway, guys.
Jesus: YOU know neither me nor my Father. If you did know me YOU would know my Father also.
Elder1: {irritated by bro Christ's tone} Brother Christ, please wait outside while we discuss this further....
Well, you know the rest of the story....
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Cygnus
Joe and Grunt, thanks for your posts. I don't feel well enough to discuss it further right now however.
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Grunt
Cyngus,
My great desire is to help people, especially the people I love, to get out of this cult. I am always on the lookout for Witnesses on the street that I can allow to approach me so I can try to enlighten them. I have printed up papers to leave in washaterias and such where Witnesses typically leave Watchtowers and Awakes and have even slipped them under the door of Kingdom Halls. I have strong feelings about this cult. They cost me a daughter and several other relatives I love. They could yet cost me my parents and a brother. I don't have grandchildren because my daughter doesn't want to bring them into this "Old System" of things. I guess that is just as well as I wouldn't be welcome to visit them if she had children. It is easy to let the depth of my anger and indignation to cause me to judge people and react to anyone getting involved with this crew. That is wrong.
I had read a post you made back a month or two ago where you said you were thinking of going back in, if I remember right. That is strictly your business and I know that when you have people you love inside it is tough. I don't think anyone as intelligent as you and as well informed as you could stay in and I think that influenced me to make the remarks I did above. I have read your posts for a long, long time and have enjoyed them. I hope you will accept my apology for responding to an intelligent question with an insult, saying you should re-up.
I think the question you posed has been well answered by others or I would address it. The key to me is that they "Strain at a gnat and swallow a camel." They are so concerned with the legalistic understanding of a rule that they overlook the larger problem of a child being raped and abused. Jesus addressed this attitude in their predecessors at Matt. 15:15 Then there came to Jesus from Jerusalem Pharisees and scribes, saying: 2 "Why is it your disciples overstep the tradition of the men of former times? For example, they do not wash their hands when about to eat a meal."
3 In reply he said to them: "Why is it YOU also overstep the commandment of God because of YOUR tradition? 4 For example, God said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.' 5 But YOU say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother: "Whatever I have by which you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God," 6 he must not honor his father at all.' And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 'This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.'"
In my opinion they really are "The blind, leading the blind." Still, that is only my opinion and you know the saying about that. Everybody has one. I'm sorry for the tone I took with you.
Grunt