Discussion forum for anything NOT JW related (page 4)

Bleep

Well it's been a half hour now, I guess we can start talking about the more upbuilding positive good Watchtower stuff.

Celia

ItsJustLittleOldMe :

And, did you know that your organization has only been publishing the bible for the past 100 years, while the rest of the world has been publishing the bible for about 2,000 years?

Actually, Wasn't the Bible the first book to be published after whatshisname... Guttemberg invented printing, in the 14th. century or so... ? But of course you're right, the Books of the Bible have been copied, reproduced, by hand for almost 2000 years...

Celia

the JW's were the first to bring the Modern English to the Bible.

Really ? What about the New International Version ?

Double Edge

Bleep:

As Forest Gump's mama would say: "Apostate is as Apostate does."

You sure use that term freely. I think a lot of Christian congregations would consider YOU and your beliefs APOSTATE....totally leaving TRUE Christianity for a false "wanna-be" religion.

I'm still waiting for some JW to show me how they validate their claim as God's TRUE organization here on the earth that goes back 2,000 years. So far, as I (a non-JW) look at your religion's claims, all I get is that some Bible Students tried to find "original" Christianity, started a religion, different leaders came in with numerous false prophecies, the Bible Students left because of major disagreements, some JW's changed the Bible to back up their radically different doctrine, and in between people have died and have had their whole lives and family's lives screwed up because of unscriptural blood doctrine and shunning.

In fact Bleep, of all the people on this board, there are only a handful that could probably be considered a real Apostate, and your writings seem to indicate that you're one of them.

Vivamus

Bleep,

Well it's been a half hour now, I guess we can start talking about the more upbuilding positive good Watchtower stuff.

Okay, like what???

L_A_Big_Dawg

But I would like to add that the JW's were the first to bring the Modern English to the Bible.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG

Have you never heard of the American Sandard Version? Oh wait, I forgot, you are a goose-stepping JW with little or no brain whatsoever.

Nevermind

SYN

Blep: You think so laudably of your precious Organization. How can you possibly rationalize that with the fact that if you were to go back in time and show the Elders of back then current Watchtower doctrine, you would be disfellowshipped for Apostacy? You are not allowed to be here, according to your "religion". You are not allowed independent thought processes to those of the Society.

YOU ARE A COG. Cope, whippersnapper.

Why are you "running ahead of Jehovah" by appearing on sites like this? Surely you know that our "poisonous lies" will "taint" your "pure" Witness mind?

Why do you allow this? Are you completely Assimilated?

The way that you just make assertions and don't back them up at all is a very grinding thing, especially to the many, many people like us who've been here for a while and seen it again and again.

Bleep

Too bad so sad that you have to use Jehovah's name on the site you visit to reach people.

Bleep

As religious interest grew, so also did the number of would-be reformers. However, it was obvious that not all were sincere. The author Kenneth S. Latourette candidly admits that some of the new religious denominations "were born of envy, strife, and personal ambition." But reformers burning candles of personal ambition could hardly be expected to be God's choice for restoring true worship.

What do Jehovah's Witnesses get?

Bleep

Here we go again.

SYN wrote, "You are not allowed independent thought processes to those of the Society."

So we are all "Borg" or robots? Care to look at the last paragraph since you rarely read it all.

The Marvelous Gift of Free Will

DO YOU appreciate having the freedom to choose how you will order your life, what you will do and say? Or would you want someone to dictate to you what your every word and action must be, every minute of every day, as long as you live?

No normal person wants his life taken out of his hands and controlled that completely by someone else. Having to live that way would be very oppressive and frustrating. We want freedom.

But why do we have such a desire for freedom? Understanding why we treasure our freedom of choice is a key to understanding how wickedness and suffering could originate. It will also help us to understand why God has waited until now before acting to bring wickedness and suffering to an end.

How We Are Made

When God created humans, among the many marvelous gifts he gave them was free will. The Bible tells us that God created man in his 'image and likeness,' and one of the qualities God has is freedom of choice. (Genesis 1:26; Deuteronomy 7:6) Thus, when he created humans, he gave them that same wonderful quality-the gift of free will.

That is why we prefer freedom rather than enslavement by oppressive rulers. It is why resentment builds up against harsh and stifling rule so that people often revolt to gain freedom.

The desire for freedom is no accident. The Bible gives the underlying reason. It states: "Where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom." (2 Corinthians 3:17) So wanting freedom is part of our nature because God created us that way. It is something that he wants us to have because he himself is the God of freedom.-2 Corinthians 3:17.

God also gave us the mental abilities, such as the powers of perception, reason, and judgment, that work in harmony with free will. These enable us to think, weigh matters, make decisions, and distinguish right from wrong. (Hebrews 5:14) We were not created to be like mindless robots that have no will of their own; nor were we created to act primarily out of instinct, as were the animals.

Along with free will, our first parents were given everything anyone could reasonably want: They had been put in a parklike paradise; they had material abundance; they had perfect minds and bodies that would not get old or sick and die; they would have children who would also have a happy future; and the expanding population would have the satisfying work of turning the entire earth into a paradise.-Genesis 1:26-30; 2:15.

Regarding what God had set in motion, the Bible says: "God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good." (Genesis 1:31) The Bible also says of the Creator: "Perfect is his activity." (Deuteronomy 32:4) Yes, he gave the human family a perfect start. It could not have been better.

Freedom With Limits

However, was the marvelous gift of free will to be without limits? Well, would you care to drive an automobile in heavy traffic if there were no traffic regulations, where you were free to drive in any lane, in any direction, at any speed? Of course, the results of such unlimited freedom in traffic would be catastrophic.

It is the same in human relations. Unlimited freedom for some would mean no freedom for others. Unrestricted freedom can result in anarchy, which damages everybody's freedom. There must be limits. Therefore, God's gift of freedom does not mean that he purposed for humans to behave in any manner without considering the welfare of others.

God's Word says on this point: "Behave like free men, and never use your freedom as an excuse for wickedness." (1 Peter 2:16, The Jerusalem Bible) So God wants our free will to be regulated for the common good. He did not purpose for humans to have total freedom, but relative freedom, subject to the rule of law.

Whose Laws?

Whose laws were we designed to obey? Whose laws work best for us? Another part of the scripture at 1 Peter 2:16 noted above states: "You are slaves of no one except God." This does not mean an oppressive slavery but, rather, that we were created to be in subjection to God's laws. We are the happier if we stay subject to them.

God's laws, more than any code of laws that could be devised by humans, provide the very best guide for everybody. As Isaiah 48:17 states: "I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk." Yet, at the same time, God's laws allow for a wide scope of freedom within their boundaries. This allows for much personal choice and variety, making the human family more interesting, indeed, fascinating.

Humans are also subject to God's physical laws. For instance, if we ignore the law of gravity and jump off a high place, we will get injured or killed. If we stay underwater without a special breathing apparatus, we will die in minutes. And if we ignore our internal laws for the body and stop eating food or drinking water, we will also die.

Hence, our first parents, and all who issued from them, were created with the need to obey God's moral or social laws as well as his physical laws. And obedience to God's laws would not be burdensome. Instead, it would work for their welfare and that of the entire human family to come. Had our first parents stayed within the limits of God's laws, all would have been well.

What happened to spoil that fine start? Why, instead, have wickedness and suffering become rampant? Why has God permitted them for so long?

The marvelous gift of free will separates us from mindless robots and from animals that act mainly on instinct

g 90 10/8 6, 13

Discussion forum for anything NOT JW related

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