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by Frenchy 44 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  RedhorseWoman

  7, concerning your request for additional information about Jehovah not looking at membership in an organization.

  This point was brought home to me very forcefully at several different times.

  I had occasion to meet several groups of people who espoused nothing but a simple faith in God. Some of them belonged to a religious group, others chose to develop a personal relationship with their Creator without benefit of "religion".

  These people had formerly been without a sense of spirituality and their lives had taken many bad turns. They eventually reached a point where they could no longer deal with their problems alone, and sought God's help. They received it.

  As a JW, I tried to convince myself that the blessings these people received were merely Satan turning himself into an angel of light in order to deceive, but that idea simply did not fit.

  The more I investigated this line of thinking, the more evidence I found that Jehovah does not check an organizational membership roll before He responds to His children.
• 

  Carmel

  7of9,

  Please if you would, e-mail me with relevant details.

  carmel
• 

  Dubby

  Friend,

  Your arguments about Frenchy's "red herring" and "blowing off" #3 don't hold water. The article Frenchy quoted says it all.

  The WTS is guilty of the Orwellian "double speak". That's why it's so easy to argue about what the WTS says versus what it does.

  "Enjoy God's creation, ride a dirt bike!"
• 

  Friend

  Dubby

  It sure is easy to make such negative assertions without supporting them, isn’t it Dubby?

  Like so many, these days, you are willing to offer a negative opinion of another’s conclusions without dealing with details leading to that conclusion. That may be part of the price everyone pays for freedom of expression, but it doesn’t add anything to a discussion or resolve anything, that is with the exception of evidencing the capacity of the one doing it.

  Some, like you apparently, feel that validity (or not) of any argument is based upon some kind of vote, as if the majority decides. Well, I hate to break it to you, but that is not how it works. In fact, such a notion is a fallacy in itself. Validity (or not) of an argument is more akin to resolving a math equation. Either premises support an argument or they do not. Either premises are evidenced as true or they are not. You have not taken the time to explain why my argument fails in those regards, and neither has anyone else on the subject at hand.

  As for Frenchy, (s)he did counter premises that have no bearing whatsoever on our discussion here. Also, those premises had not been offered in support of the argument addressed. Such actions are the epitome of a red herring.

  As for point number three (3); Frenchy did blow it off as being inapplicable. If you missed that then reading comprehension is the problem. Otherwise Frenchy’s assertion that the subject sentence applies only between Jehovah’s Witnesses has been thoroughly debunked.

  I suggest you go and learn about what makes a sound argument. Perhaps thereafter you can shed the bad habit of speaking empty words.

  Friend
• 

  Pathofthorns

  I would have to concur with you Dubby.

  While "no one can judge but Christ" is the safe answer we give when pinned down, the reality is that we teach the comment any young child has given in the Kingdom Hall - "The bad people will be destroyed."

  Bad people = a) People who hear the message and refuse.

  b) people who leave or are kicked out of the "true religion"

  c) People who belong to false religion

  d) People who commit sins condemned in the Bible

  e) Minor children whose parents refuse the message.

  d) People whose hearts God reads and deems unworthy.

  In other words you have very slim odds of survival if you are not a Witness. According to many, even a "bad" Witness has better odds for survival than a devout Catholic.

  The JW media site answer to this question is double-speak at its finest.

  The Watchtower quoted by Frenchy is very definite when it says Only [Jehovah's Witnesses] have any Scriptural hope of surviving [Armageddon]."

  (Now I'm going to get it aren't I friend (LOL) What falacious reasoning have I used this time?)

  Edited by - Pathofthorns on 12 June 2000 14:7:26
• 

  Kismet

  Well 7 of 9 you have got my attention.

  No no it wasn't your pic (tho that was striking too-smirk) it was your comment about your University Professor.

  What sort of incontrovertible proof did s/he provide? Anything you can share?

  Kismet
• 

  Seven

  Rhw, I have always felt for certain that Jehovah has revealed himself to people of different cultures in ways that maybe only they can relate to-unknown to us. Thanks for your thoughts.

  Carmel & Kismet, I'll go over the material and give you the story in a nutshell later. It may take a post or two to cover it all.

  7
• 

  Andyman

  I think there comes a time when we should stop with the debate and talk about reality.

  In MY reality 90% of the borthers and sisters I know believe that if you aren't in the organization you will die at the big "A". Now they learned this from where?

  And 90% of the brothers and siters I know believe that if you leave the organization, walk away, stop going to meetings, or DA you will also die at the big "A". Once again where did they learn this?

  I don't think they came up with these thing all on their own, do you Friend?

  Now we can argue the points form society literature til we are blue in the face. There are articles that will prove both sides of the debate. Again why is that? How can we fine the quotes to back up both sides if the society is remaining steadfast in their beliefs?

  Sometimes we have to rely on our own experiences to answer the questions. Many times it will vary from congregation to congreagation. Now that also brings up the question of WHY?

  All this makes me thing that the society has some real problems, and we can't get the answers from the literature, we have to go to the bible to understand what God wants from us.

  Great Idea .

  Just my 2 cents worth here.

  Andyman:
• 

  Andyman

  I think there comes a time when we should stop with the debate and talk about reality.

  In MY reality 90% of the borthers and sisters I know believe that if you aren't in the organization you will die at the big "A". Now they learned this from where?

  And 90% of the brothers and siters I know believe that if you leave the organization, walk away, stop going to meetings, or DA you will also die at the big "A". Once again where did they learn this?

  I don't think they came up with these thing all on their own, do you Friend?

  Now we can argue the points form society literature til we are blue in the face. There are articles that will prove both sides of the debate. Again why is that? How can we fine the quotes to back up both sides if the society is remaining steadfast in their beliefs?

  Sometimes we have to rely on our own experiences to answer the questions. Many times it will vary from congregation to congreagation. Now that also brings up the question of WHY?

  All this makes me thing that the society has some real problems, and we can't get the answers from the literature, we have to go to the bible to understand what God wants from us.

  Great Idea .

  Just my 2 cents worth here.

  Andyman:
• 

  Dubby

  Friend,

  I'm sorry I didn't use enough words for you. A long and convoluted retort I don't have. You obviously think that you are intellectually superior to me and that if I don't go into detail, my comments aren't worthy.

  I was just pointing out that what Frenchy posted was the proof that your arguement isn't good enough. Go read his post again.

  "Enjoy God's creation, ride a dirt bike!"