Rodney Stark was featured briefly in the short Watchtower video exposing the benificial nature of "disfellowshipping" (which is a made up word that does not appear in the Bible!). I found a 1997 paper that he wrote with Larry Iannaccone entitled, "Why the Jehovah's Witnesses Grow So Rapidly. A Theoretical Application" and which was published in the Journal of Contemporary Religion. A page with a link to the article in pdf format is at:
--VM44Rodney Stark's paper on JW growth
by VM44 15 Replies latest jw friends
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Perry
I found many of his presuppositions and conclusions to to be ridiculous....not to mention the fact that he falsifies much of the religion's history and delves into apologetics for the movement.
I also found the theory that he tried to match with Witness experience to be a grossly inadequet model to explain the rise of Christianity. It is a seemingly good model for a cult. I propose the postulate that the originators of the model regard all religions to be little more than social constucts that ignore the internal psychic and spiritual nature which are the roots of many movements. Those movements experience decay when they move away from the internal and toward the external. All of the long term religions have gone through revivals that attempt to reconnect with core principles. I see no such attempt within the Witness community.
If my postulate is correct, then Stark has either furthered a non-spiritual agenda or simply become and akward and somewhat embarrassing example of a social scientist. His effort to connect the darkest parts of the model with clearly unpopular religions like the Moonies was a particularly pitiful attempt to beef up the rhetoric in praise of the Witnesses.
A thoroughly biased paper.
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Bang
It's very obvious why they grow (or rather, why they did).
Wolves in sheeps clothing - the effort they put into the outer appearance.
- They appear radical to devotion, which is definitely attractive, though the truth is that it is not a 'devotion' generally, but rather a bargain or an enslavement.
- They cover up bad publicity.
- They eject any 'problem' people and label them.
- They focus blame on certain societal groups (that's a big one).
- They play on the fear that is generated in people by their own sinfulness.
- They make spurious claims in the theological area, which bamboozles those unfamiliar to it.
- They appear 'nice'.
- They say they love you but don't (the spiritual fornicator)
I could go on all night, but the main thing is "appearance".
Bang
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DanTheMan
JW to Rodney Starks: "I'm so glad Your Scholarliness that you are intelligent enough to realize that JW's aren't as bad as we're sometimes made out to be. Oh, and by the way, if you don't join us, Jehovah's going to kill you at Armageddon."
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Dia
Greetings,
I can't open a pdf file. I'd LOVE to read it if you can find another way to post it.
Rodney Stark is, in my opinion, a brilliant sociologist and scholar. I have read much of his work and I think very highly of him.
I CAN'T BELIEVE that the WTS is using snippets of some video of him for their own self-promotional purposes and I wonder if he is aware that they are doing this.
To my knowledge, he is currently teaching (probably Sociology) at Washington University at Seattle.
Please try to let him know what's going on. I can't believe he would approve of it.
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VM44
Dr. Stark's biographical resume vita is posted at jw-media.org. It lists his degree's, positions he has held, and so on. It is at the link:
http://www.jw-media.org/vnr/2122827332/rsbiography.htm
but, at the bottom of the page is:
Copyright 2002 Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. All rights reserved.
This is very very unusual, to have one's resume copyrighted by the Watchtower! It makes one wonder just what is the relationship between Dr. Stark and the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. --VM44Edited by - VM44 on 27 July 2002 10:32:25
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JanH
Perry,
I found many of his presuppositions and conclusions to to be ridiculous....not to mention the fact that he falsifies much of the religion's history and delves into apologetics for the movement.
Actually, his conclusions are very accurate, and I did not see any apologetics for the JWs in that article.
I suspect some exJWs will be annoyed because they already buy into the JW view that growth is good. That the JWs have had a tremendous growth rate is beyond discussion. Stark does IMO a good job in describing the reasons for this growth rate. Stark does not deal with an ethical consideration of e.g. DFing. He simply says that it is benefital for growth. I think he is right, though the evidence is a bit weak here.
What I found missing is a discussion of the growing gap between the western world and the 3rd world of the JWs. Perhaps this was not sufficiently obvious with his old data. The growth rate is mostly negative in the western world now, suggesting that the JWs have crossed the line to have too much tension with the "world".
While believers may be offended by the comparision between modern NRMs like JWs, Moonies and Mormons and the early Christians, this makes more than sense to a social scientist. It should be remembered that the rise of Christianity was a social disaster. It transformed a reasonably tolerant, literate, economically vital super-state into a millenia or more of illiteracy, cultural decline, religious dictature and political chaos.
Hopefully, Stark's estimated future growth rate for the JWs will be proven wrong (and their current decline in our part of the world indicates that it is about to be). After all, it doesn't happen automatically. It can be infuenced by every one of us.
- Jan
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Dia
Can anyone figure out how to get access to the story mentioned (without pdf).
Who is the Larry Iannaccone guy?
It is not possible to copyright Mr. Stark's resume! (snicker, snicker at the WTS) They only did that to pad their nest with his credentials.
I think he would be appauled at the way they are using his clip to defend their religious 'right' to keep their organization 'clean' by kicking out people who are exposing the criminal activity within.
Shame, shame, shame.
By the way, true Christians would learn a lot from Stark's book, "The Growth of Christianity". It was nominated for
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Nanoprobe
Edited by - nanoprobe on 27 July 2002 11:27:21
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Nanoprobe
Mr Starck is not only the " Video News Release" Expert, he is undoubtly a compensated endorser.
I suppose there is no way to find out the amount of the compensation when dealing with a regilious entity.
Edited by - nanoprobe on 27 July 2002 11:28:13