Incest accuse , witchunt?

by happy man 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  happy man

  After I have read a lot of this here, and evrything bill say, i must say this is a very delicat and difficult issu. Almost unbelevebel difficult.

  I dont want to defend abusers, fare from that, i hate them,and think the best is to take ther balls away, but i think it is important that this not turns out to be a witchunt on men, like it was inn in Sweden in the some time ago, some Swedeish famus writer say this is the moderm times witchunt.

  In 1600 children was turnig inn ther mothers and say they was witch, and they was burnd , who can go against children.

  here some social educated peopel find when they ask children, that if they think wery carefull, they must remeber that some have abuse them when they was littel children, we have also some case where fadher was realesd from prison after the children confesd that they was lying.

  So this writer say that men is modern times witch, if you understan what i meen.

  intresting thaught on a very difficult issu, but i think it is easy that this thing can turn out to be a hunt .

  Wher even some innocent is condemd.

  This was only my thaughts late inn the swedish summer .
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  DakotaRed

  HappyMan, that is all the more reason matters should be turned over to the proper authorities for full investigation, not the elders. The authorites are trained professional investigators and can see through false accusations most of the time. They do it by speaking to others that may have viable information. The accused is either cleared or arrested, as real evidence merits.

  Throughout the late eighties, witch hunts were very prominent here in the US. Look up the Wenatchee Witch Hunt sometimes. Since then, training has improved and the authorities are even more cautious and diligent. But, still, they are the ones trained in handling these matters, the elders are not.

  Lew W

  Watchtower Decruit
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  Matty

  The problem is very clear. If serious accusations are not handled by the proper authorities then the rumour mill can kick in. This is dreadful for all parties concerned. Unless these matters are handled by professionals and investigated thoroughly, nothing can be proven outright. Firstly, evil criminals can go unpunished, and on the flipside, innocent people's reputations can be destroyed.
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  Celia

  HappyMan, Bonjour,

  i hate them,and think the best is to take ther balls away,

  I agree with you HM !

  If there is no doubt at all that a man abused and molested and raped little kids, go ahead, cut his thing off !
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  Jesika

  HappyMan--------

  I understand your concern as I have heard it expressed by others. One thing you have to remember is if the Society would have handled the situation of sexual abuse or any abuse for that matter-the right way- than any kind of "witch hunting" would have never been a possibility. This is not the type of situation that a child points a finger and the accused it thrown in prison. There is an intense investigation---done by police and child protective agencies. Social workers and counselors are trained to notice and to be able to see signs or behaviors linked to being sexually or physically abused. In speaking with both parties a trained professional in this field can tell (not with out flaws at times--they are still human) if the accusation is justified. Even when it is justified, the courts have the final call on whether or not the accused is sent to prison and for how long.

  I am a survivor of incest and was told to be quiet and not to tell anyone. I have lived with this for 22yrs and it has altered my life and the kind of person I would have been. I do not agree with the 2 witness policy that the JW's have. How many people do you know that would rape anyone in frount of another witness??? Would this not completely wipe out rape? People who do these things do them in private so as not to be caught. My word against yours, and being a child you think the adult will always be believed over you.

  If someone is wronglly accused of molesting or sexually abusing a child I don't agree with that either. That is a terrible thing to do to someone and I think the person making the false accusation should serve the time in jail that the person who was accused may of had to serve.

  This is a subject I am very sensitive to, but I also try to be fair to those who don't understand. If I can offer anymore information or opinions on this please let me know. I will refer back to this page to see your responce.

  Love,

  Jesika Thoman
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  Haereticus

  "...the best is to take ther balls away,"

  And fingers aswell just to make sure.

  Mark
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  JosephMalik

  I do not agree with the 2 witness policy that the JW's have. How many people do you know that would rape anyone in frount of another witness???

  Jesika,

  The Watchtowers two witness policy demonstrates to all that they do not understand scripture. I have explained this several times on this board, but it does not seem to sink in. This kind of abuse is a criminal matter not a matter of faith, and today in such criminal mattes the faith has NO jurisdiction over them. The matter must be turned over to civil authorities for prosecution not the elders. Such authorities exist for this very purpose and were created by Christ to serve as such.

  Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

  In times past civil law was also the law of the faith and executions were carried out by religious authorities during such times but NOT now. Such rules did apply then even to giving death sentences. But only in matters of faith such as doctrine do such rules apply today as stated in NT texts. Never should they be applied to such criminal matters as the Watchtower does. Therefore such rules must be understood in context as we are no longer under such Law given to the Hebrews and mixing texts from both the old and new testaments does not work. The application of such rules may sound similar but is not the same as the faith cannot execute or imprison such criminals as it did in times past and justice cannot be administered by such elders. That is why their actions are so obviously evil and visible to all. Joseph
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  Nanoprobe

  50% of all abuse claims are false.

  ( this statement is NOT true )

  Criminal and divorce attorneys spread these numbers all over the Internet. Is this the truth? Can a man be accused of sexual abuse as easily as getting the wrong mail in your post office box?

  It is widely believed that at least 50 percent of all allegations of child sexual abuse are false, and that an accused person appearing in a court of law is quite likely to have been falsely accused. Those who defend accused child sexual offenders want us to believe that 50 percent of individuals brought to trial are innocent. These beliefs are not supported by scientific evidence, either . http://www.vachss.com/help_text/false_allegations.html

  There is a vast difference between Unsubstantiated Reports and False Reports . If you remember in the recent Samantha Runnion murder, Mr. Alvia was previously accused but not convicted of abusing two other girls. Unsubstantiated does not mean innocent.

  The figures below are from the U.S. Dept of Health & Human Services, The Administration for Children & Families.

  1997 NCANDS REPORT, intentionally false report statistics
  Child Maltreatment 1997: Reports from the States to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System (Government Printing Office, 1999) Page D-9, Tables 3.1 and 3.2

  Four states (Florida, Missouri, Vermont, and Virginia) gathered data on intentionally false reports as a subgroup of unsubstantiated reports.

  STATES	TOTAL REPORTS	UNSUBSTANTIATED	INTENTIONALLY FALSE
  Florida	186,726	92,337	868
  Missouri	80,185	49,490	460
  Vermont	2,309	1,257	18
  Virginia	51,227	37,282	457
  TOTAL	320,447	180,366	1,803

  Intentionally false reports as a percentage of unsubstantiated reports:
  . 00999634 (less than 1 out of 100 unsubstantiated reports)

  The table from which this data was compiled may be accessed at:

  http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/cb/publications/ ncands97/apd.htm

  Edited by - nanoprobe on 28 July 2002 18:16:5
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  dungbeetle

  < I have explained this several times on this board, but it does not seem to sink in. >

  Oh My God, do I know what you mean, JM.

  Anyway, could some of you toddle over here and give some feedback please?

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33236&site=3

  Many thanks!!!
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  ISP

  All you can do, Happy Man, is when you hear of an allegation to report it to the proper authorities.....period. These ones are trained in dealing with abuse.....elders are not. The innocent have nothing to fear. IMO I would not be afraid of a malicious allegation by a child. It can happen but I would not sacrifice the victims like you seem to be proposing.

  ISP