So-called Bible Scholars........

by hillary_step 29 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  William Penwell

  The WT knows how to trigger the guilt responses. It is typical borg double speak, where those in get a whole different meaning than an outsider. Good mind controlling techniques.

  Will
• 

  startingover

  This article reminds me of a response my father emailed me about birthdays. I was telling my parents how I thought I had been mislead in my younger days and never checked out other viewpoints. I mentioned to them the mention of birthdays in Job. A week later I got this via email:

  Some so-called "higher critics" in a desperate attempt to support the practice of birthday celebrations try to negate the flawless integrity of Job by claiming Jobs children celebrated birthdays. They refer back to Job 1:4,5 which relates "banquet days" which were held by Jobs sons "each on his own day" saying that "his own day" refers to his birthday and that they were having birthday parties. This, however, is pure speculation. More logically, the sons may just have taken turns, each taking his own turn or day to sponsor his banquet. This in no way proves Job celebrated birthdays. When Jobs sons "held a banquet of each one on his own day" it should not be supposed that they were celebrating their birthdays. "Day" in this verse translates the Hebrew word yohm and refers to a period of time from sunrise to sunset. On the other hand, "birthday" is a compound of the two Hebrew words yohm and hul-ledheth. The distinction between "day" and ones birthday may be noted in Genesis 40:20, where both expressions appear. "Now on the third day (yohm) it turned out to be Pharaohs birthday (literally, "the day of the birth (hul-ledheth) of Pharaoh"." So, it is certain that Job 1:4 does not refer to a birthday, as is unquestionably the case at Genesis 40:20. It would seem that Jobs seven sons held a family gathering (possibly a spring or harvest festival) and as the feasting made the week-long circuit, each son hosted the banquet in his own house "on his own day".

  Thanks to my daily reading here I am now able to spot this manipulation. I wrote a response back highlighting 3 things just in the first sentence that were manipulative. I have as yet received a response or even an acknowledgment (I see him several times a week) Maybe he never knew he was doing it. (80 plus years old, Gilead graduate, you know the story) I think I'll bring it up sometime.
• 

  Nicodemus

  Hillary,

  Your analysis of that particular paragraph is most insightful.

  I also gave a lot of thought to that section of the lesson as we studied it this past week. I can see the issue from two perspectives:

  Positive Perspective

  One risk with any given study is that you can "fail to see the forest for the trees." That you can get so engrossed in details that you miss the big, and possibly marvelous, picture. I find that I also have to agree at some level with their observation that at least some "scholars" have lost their own faith in the Bible as a living, breathing message from God, and view it as purely a human book. If that is true, than all religion based on the Bible, not merely the brand practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses, is pointless.

  Negative Perspective

  Having said the above, I still found a frightening rhetoric present in that paragraph, as well as the one that followed. For Jehovah's Witnesses have based many of their own policies and procedures on such "word studies." For example, the alleged connection involving the Greek word 'pharmakia' with both spiritism and drug use, resulting in a disfellowshipping policy for smoking. Or the word 'agonizesthe' or 'agonize' (Lu 13:24) which has been used over and over again to imply that those whom do not exert themselves to this level in the ministry could be at risk. Many other examples could be shared.

  With respect to the second issue raised, regarding to whom particular books were written. Hasn't the Society always encouraged Bible readers, when analyzing any given passage, to consider the context? Wouldn't that include the question of to whom the book was written, and why? As just one example, might such a consideration, just possibly, be harmful to our interpretation of 2 Tim 3 re: the last days? For, if that were to be interpreted the way we do, why was it recorded in a personal letter to one man, not one of Paul's many letters to entire congregations, or even groups of congregations?
• 

  Farkel

  Hi HS,

  Their message boils down to this:

  "We're stupid and unschooled. Therefore, that proves you should trust us before any others."

  Idiots.

  Farkel
• 

  pomegranate

  <shaking head in major disbelief>
• 

  pomegranate

  You do know WHY they say that right? Because if someone starts doing Hebrew and Greek word studies on their own,
  will find that the JW's have been FUDGING with the words.

  It makes me wanna SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

  Ahem...there. I feel a little better now.

  typo

  Edited by - pomegranate on 30 July 2002 21:39:48
• 

  hillary_step

  For so many years I spent hours in delivering Public Talks, assembly and convention discourses, helping dozens to become Dubs, and yet never did I gain such an appreciation of the Bible as from the very words that the WTS condemns. I wonder why?

  Ozzie - thank you, a very prfound post - HS
• 

  hillary_step

  Nicodemus,

  A very interesting post thank you.

  That you can get

  so engrossed in details that you miss the big, and possibly marvelous, picture. I find that I also have to agree at some level with their observation that at least some "scholars" have lost their own faith in the Bible as a living, breathing message from God, and view it as purely a human book

  I agree that much of the beauty of the art of Bible can be lost in a purely academic research of it, though I cannot agree that it's message becomes submerged by an analysis of it. My own view is that generally Greek and Hebrew scholars like scientists need to approach the matter from the viewpoint of philology and semantics to preserve the truth of meaning.

  For example, 'parousia' is one Koine Greek word upon which the whole of WTS end times theology pivots. Without a clear understanding of the intentions of the writers in using this word then confusion will rain, and those with Adventist inclinations like the WTS and W.E.Vine who support their interpretation ( both with unscholarly agendas ) will manipulate such words to suit their ends. This is just one word, yet so many lives have been altered by it.

  I actually think that scholars who have no faith in the Bible make far more successful researchers and translators exactly because they have no agenda, and because they bring to the table a historical persepctive that is often missed by those with an emotional investment in the whole issue.

  I understand what you are trying to say in your paragraph entitled Positive Perspective, but I see no harm in non-believers stripping the Bible to its cogs and wheels if the result is an accurate understanding of what the early writers truly meant in their homilies.

  Very best regards - HS

  Edited by - hillary_step on 30 July 2002 22:41:17
• 

  hillary_step

  StartingOver,

  Yes, but at least your father made some attempt at answering the question, and indeed raised a valid point which has often been debated. That it was lifted almost verbatim from a 'Questions From Readers' on the matter is not surprising, but be thankful that he did not insult you with the usual "two severed heads" reasoning......lol

  Thank you for your post - HS
• 

  jst2laws

  HS,

  This is the most obvious attack on the scholars I have seen. Thanks for pointing it out.

  For many years I took my laptop to the meetings so I could use PC Study Bible by Bible Soft. Its a fairly expensive Bible research program with about 8 Bible translations and many Bible commentaries all hyperlinked to the scripture you had referenced. When the CO wanted me out, the fact that I opened my laptop during the meetings was one of his charges against me. Try to find a scriptural precedent for that.

  There are several of these programs available FREE of charge and they are better then the one I purchased. Recently someone here set us onto Esword

  Here is a list of other Programs available http://www.biblebell.org/links/bibleSW.html:

  10 Bible ProgramsThere are LOTS of Bible programs out there. The following are 10 programs that Biblebell owns &/or has tested. eSword Power Bible Sword Searcher New Bible Library Sword Project OnLine Bible Bible Explorer QuickVerse PC Study Bible Ages Digital Library

  Price Free - eSword, Sword Project, OnLine Bible

  I have played with E-sword and Sword project, besides using PC Study Bible for years.

  If the WT says these things are no good, probably worth checking them out.

  Jst2laws