by Dizzy Cat 16 Replies latest jw friends
Just a quickie, as far as the date - 1975 - is concerned, was there ever a printed document through the WTS that stated that this year would be the absolute final date for the big A ?
Or was it just rumours amongst the brothers ?
Just interested (sorry if this has been mentioned 1000 times before, but I'm new here you see & all that).
Tar !
The mathematical calculations specifying 1975 were laid out in the Witness book "Life everlasting in the Freedom of the sons of God" (1966). Indicating that 6000 years of human history would end in that year.
Every witness knows that there is a 1000 year long millenium. And that a "day" is 7000 years long. 6000 plus 1000 =7000. The mathematics appears flawless, thus Armaggedon MUST come by 1975.
In the main the Organization applied the method espoused by Orwell in his novel "1984" . The organization says, "2 plus two equals"... And leaves the organization masses to draw the conclusion "4".
The org is very experienced in methods of information presentation relative to false prophecy, and knows all the tricks and sleights of mouth,.
Edited by - refiners fire on 31 July 2002 3:42:35
Thanks for the info' ....
There are numerous passages from 1970s Watchtowers indicating Expectation as being IMMINENT
Heres one from the WT of October 1 , 1972, page 583:
"BIBLE CHRONOLOGY SHOWS THAT SINCE THE AUTUMN OF 1914 WE HAVE BEEN LIVING IN THE LAST DAYS OF THIS WICKED SYSTEM OF THINGS. JESUS CHRIST INDICATED THAT THESE LAST DAYS WOULD NOT EXTEND BEYOND THE LIFE SPAN OF THE GENERATION SEEING THEIR START. HENCE AT LEAST SOME WHO WITNESSED THE HORRORS OR WORLD WAR 1 WILL SEE THE COMPLETE END OF GOVERNMENT BY IMPERFECT MEN"....
You may notice that this passage doesnt even MENTION the year 1975. In the minds of all members at that time, the 1975 calculation (6000 plus1000 =7000) coupled with the 1914 "generation" belief (1914+70 =1984) seemed strong twin proofs that Armaggedon was absolutely imminent.
Be aware also that the organization well knows the definition of A biblical false prophet and is not in the habit of using the term "Jehovah says" where predictive dates are involved. They will say:
Jesus says...
Jesus Indicates...
The Bible shows us...
The Prophet daniel sees...
Bible chronology proves....
But they do not say JEHOVAH SAYS. Where DATES are concerned.
Edited by - refiners fire on 31 July 2002 3:57:10
The infallible mathematical calculation that added up to 1975 was published in a book studied at book studies. Only regular attending Jehovahs Witnesses saw it.
In publications for public consumption (Watchtower and Awake) the organization preferred to focus upon the "generation" expectation. Heres another generation statement from the Watchtower . October 1, 1973.(page 583). One might also note that predictive statements are often recounted from October issues of the magazines. This is because October 22 is a date fixed in the dub heirachies minds as "significant" .
..." THIS ENTIRE SIGN ,CLIMAXED BY THE GREAT TRIBULATION AND THE END OF THE SYSTEM OF THINGS, WILL TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE GENERATION OF 1914 PASSES AWAY"...
Heres one where the ALMOST say "Jehovah says";
Watchtower, January 15, 1974 (page 51):
....."JEHOVAHS OWN TIME IS AT HAND TO ANNIHILATE IT.AND THIS TIME HE CLEARLY MARKED IN HIS WORD LONG AGO. UNMISTAKABLY THE BIBLE PINPOINTS 1914.......BEFORE THE GENERATION THAT WAS THEN ALIVE PASSES OFF THE SCENE,THE GREAT TRIBULATION WILL STRIKE"....
Edited by - refiners fire on 31 July 2002 4:34:51
Depends on whether you lived through those years:
NO: WTS never did absolutely write that Armageddon was going to happen in 1975;
YES: Those of us who talked, lived and walked as JWs then, esp if raised in the "Truth", had no doubts. Every elder, PO, CO, DO and GB made comments to that effect. I remember an assembly in Tacoma where Fred Franz talked about 1975, and the "countdown" of 60 months till the end was reiterated, to total applause.
Been there, saw that, heard that.
Interestingly, one of the earliest "pointers" to the 1970's in WTS publications was in the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free," published in 1943.
It said, "From Adam's creation to the end of 1943 is 5,971 years... We are therefore near the end of six thousand years of human history."
As RefinersFire has explained, it was left to the individual brothers and Sisters to do the math and figure out that only 29 years later the 6,000 years would close - in 1972.
Why was there no big 1972 fever then, if "some individuals" were so inclined to "run ahead of the Society"? Could it be because there was NO follow up flood of hyperbole from the WTS to the congregations touting "only 348 more months remain"? Let the reader use discernment.
In the WTS publications that discussed the 1975 chronology, nothing is said of the source of the chronology. It is possible that Fred Franz worked all this out by himself, but another possibility exists - that Fred Franz may have appropriated the chronological work of what were then called "the evil slave class," namely Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God, who published the "Plain Truth" magazine. I have heard that Armstrong also taught expectations for 1975, but I have no details to what was taught or the foundation for what was taught, but I am fascinated by the unexplained (to me, at least) minor shift of three years. Was there "cross-pollenization" between the WTS and various "evil slave" chronologers? History may in time shed some light on that question. History has shown that the WTS has not been adverse to employing the scholarship of mystics and mediums when it suited their purpose.
Edited by - Nathan Natas on 31 July 2002 5:3:11
Were you there in January 75 when Freddie got up and gave his talk saying (sounding like Jimmy Stewart)....
..." well its true about ...uhhh...ADAM...uhhhh....being created then...uhhh...but...uhhh....when was EVE CREATED???"..
Interestingly, Nathan Knorr made Freddie hang his butt out and give that talk, (protect the presidency)then Knorr gave the NEXT talk on the program which was about how much the organization had GROWN since the late sixties. Insinuating that the prediction and expectation must be part of a plan approved by God. Freddie gave the Bad news, and Knorr the good news that day.
Edited by - refiners fire on 31 July 2002 5:3:51
I went to a couple of Christadelphian meetings once and one of the talks on Chronology. They held that Christs Kingdom was enthroned in heaven in 1914 too.
