Is Mutual Respect Possible?

by Sociologist 48 Replies latest jw friends

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  Pathofthorns

  Welcome Sociologist...

  I found your questions/comments interesting and not offensive. For me, I think a mutual respect between former and active JW's is the ultimate goal. Probably the biggest road block standing in the way of that is the disfellowshipping/shunning policy in place. Without open fellowship and interaction there can be no mutual respect.

  Many of your comments are very true which probably raised some suspicions that you have an agenda. Both active JW's and former JW's seem to be very suspicious of anyone commenting accurately on certain subjects and automatically assume a hidden agenda.

  While others criticised the somewhat biased format of your questions, I appreciated the format you chose because it forced us to look more critically at ourselves as a community and that can only be a good thing. If you came here with bias I would rather try to soften them instead of confirming them.

  Path
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  Guest 77

  Socio, you stated, "My objective is not to criticize persons belonging to other group but rather 'attempt' to grasp the dynamics of the work here." I got your drift.

  I have played competivie golf for the past forty years, eleven of those forty years as a professional. I know enough that every golfer has a different swing and every golf shot requires a different club selection. No two golfers will take the same club for the same yardage every single time. I'm totally aware that golf is a mind game. The similarities between golf and life is amazing. I have come to learn a person's nature by observing his conduct on the golf course. Some people display a meek like attitude off the course but this meek like attitude soon disappears on the course when their game is not up to par. Swearing, throwing and breaking clubs and having temper tantrums from the least people you expect is surprising to watch. You get to see the other side of the coin. Cheaters? It would astound you to learn who cheats. It is very easy to cheat in golf. If you cheat in golf, where and what else do golfers cheat at?

  The mutual respect in golf is displayed after a competive round and you can also observe this on National T.V., 'everyone shakes hands.'

  Guest 77
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  siegswife

  For someone who is a student of sociology, you are certainly seem to lack an understanding of your own prejudices. I agree with those who say that you come here with preconceived notions about what goes on in the mind of exJW's.

  The WTS is a CULT. It's goal is to gain adherents that will first buy, and then sell (turning over those proceeds as well) its literature. It demands complete compliance with whatever demands it makes, under the threat of termination. It has caused the destruction of families associated with it, as well as the death of it's own due to its "no blood" policy. Before that, it had a ban on transplants.

  It shields child molesters and abusers, as well as spouse abusers. It treats the victims of the abusers with distain and disfellowships those who speak out against their policies.

  The only thing positive about this CULT is that it trains people to be good sales reps.

  Do you think that the Moonies are a legitimate religion? According to your reasoning, since thousands of people are members of that CULT, the charges of it's being a cult are somehow fallicious. Do you think people that are brainwashed are aware of it?

  I think that you need to do more homework, Sociologist. Maybe then you can approach this subject in a more objective manner.

  Lea
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  Perry

  Most active JW's are loathe to admit to any defects in the organization; most of you who commented are unwilling to recognize anything positive about it. Both sides are hopelessly biased.

  I guess that you wouldn't mind applying your same logic to other religions, right?

  Consider:

  The Aztecs ritually washed the bodies of the human sacrificial victims. I suppose that much could be written about the positive benefits of bathing. Here's a dose of your own logic.

  The bathing of sacrificial victims in ancient Mexico had several beneficial results.

  1. The victim felt a sense of love having attention paid to his body by his contemporaries. The very selfless act of washing anothers body served as a powerful testimony of the great value that that was placed on his life.

  2. Washing the body also served as a protection against disease. Not until the 19th century did scientists understand the value of cleanliness as a protection against the spread of disease. However, thousands of years ago the Aztecs practiced ritual bathing, no doubt greatly benefitting the society at that time.

  3. A clean body, having removed from it many harmful bacteria that in all liklihood hastens the decomposition process, was a loving provision by the high priest. That loving act provided the extra time needed for the family to properly hold memorial services so that the deceased could be properly memorialized.

  While many scoff at the "brutal" practices of the ancient Aztecs, true students of the bible are not easily swayed by popular opinion. They appreciate the aspects of the religion that harmonizes with Christ's teachings. Did not Christ himself wash the feet of his diciples? While we recognize the lack of spiritual light in that ancient society, we also give credit where it is due. True christians are able to appreciate man's attempts to be holy. Perhaps Jesus said it best, "you must be holy because your heavenly father is holy".

  Institutionalized ignorance...... nothing more, nothing less.
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  Celtic

  Hello and Welcome Sociologist, good to see you here. I didn't find your style of questioning offensive in the least bit, well thought out. Here in this community, I have found, if you have more of a questioning nature and are intelligent as you so obviously are, you will get yourself into hot water often, hoping your skin is thick enough to take it.

  Some of us do enjoy sociology and psychology, keep then please your questions and comments coming.

  Celtic Mark - Cornwall UK
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  LittleToe

  Sociologist:
  I suspect you are male, are in your early twenties, and are a pseudo-intellectual.

  I also suspect that you are (or have been) a JW, and have probably previously posted here under another pseudonym.
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  siegswife

  It is not just the JW organization that doesn't like too many questions being asked; quite a few ex-witnesses apparently feel the same way, judging by some of the replies. It is a mentality that strikes out and attacks those who even hint at disagreeing, calling them insincere, ignorant or evil. Coming from supposedly liberated minds I find that strange and can only hope that this message board is not representative of the majority of ex-witnesses, who hopefully resist wallowing in self-pity and complaining about how badly they've been treated and get on with their lives.

  Yea, he sounds real objective. It seems to me that he has a point he's trying to prove rather than conducting an ubiased study of human nature in relation to this subject.

  Sociologist is missing an important part of the equation, though. He's discounting the fact that many of us were either raised by our parents, or confused enough to believe that the WTS was representing GOD (what the WTS itself claims to do). It's one thing to try to understand the way people interact with one another and the effects of terminating those relationships. It's quite another thing to understand these relationships when God is thrown into the equation.

  Socioligist is negating the fact that many people here are trying to come to terms with their understanding of the nature of God, creation and a host of other issues that are not related at all to human interaction except when other humans claim to represent a Supernatural being.

  I think his study is flawed on many levels, including, but not limited to his own preconceived take on the subject.
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  BluesBrother

  When I did Psychology, basic level at night school - everyone had to do a project for the test. Are we your project Mr Soci?

  We moan because we have been hurt. Either ,like me with a sense of a wasted life and what might have been, or many that have suffered REAL hurt . A brief look at the threads would show that to you.

  Yes life in the Borg taught me a lot. A fascination with history/archeology, a thirst for knowlege and knowlege of the Bible. I knew some wonderful people and learned people/skills

  But does that excuse

  a] the total falsehood of their interpretation of Bible prophecy?

  b] the fabrication of doctrines eg blood transfusion

  c] Misrepresenting history , eg the "fact " that Jerusalem fell in 607 BCE? inconsequential until you realise that prophecy to prove the imminent end of the world hangs on this date.

  d] the control they exercise and the power the elders have to instruct our families to shun us if we are cought posting on this board .

  And you wonder why we are angry?
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  hillary_step

  Sociologist,

  Before we go further perhaps you might confirm as to whether you have posted to this Board under another identity and if so which one? Are you or have you been a Jehovah's Witness? You suggest that you are here as a 'dabbler' in sociology yet you do not use the modus operandi of a trained sociologist, or even a student of sociology. Your questions, as I noted in my opening post, do have merit, your pre-conceptions however are more telling to an XJW than you might imagine.

  Why am I mentioning this and not attending to your questions? Well, you need to understand that as long as your motives are in question you will not receive an objective answer to your questions from many here who have had their already sore emotions toyed with on this Board before, and this by those whose motives were not honorable.

  So why not tell us a little about yourself. That is always a good way of getting people to relax enough to give you the answers you need.

  Best regards - HS

  edited for imperfections in spelling!

  Edited by - hillary_step on 6 August 2002 10:47:15
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  YoursChelbie

  ....yes it is possible.