Questions from a non-JW

imzadi

Hi everyone! Some of you may remember me from the old H20 board. At that time I was posting because a very close friend of my family was seriously dating a JW and I had questions. Well, my friend and the JW were married early this year and I still have questions.

The wedding had well over 200 guests in attendance and I knew most of them, meaning there were extremely few JWs. I counted only five, the bride and her immediate family. Alcohol flowed like water at the reception, and the bride observed all of the wedding traditions, including tossing the bouquet, which I understand JWs aren't supposed to do. The only concession I noticed to her JW-ness was the fact that the wedding ceremony was conducted by a judge and was held in a ballroom.

About a month ago Jack and Diane finished moving into their new home and threw a house warming party. Again, I knew almost everyone there and most of them were members of Jack's family. Diane's parents were there, but they were the only people I was certain were JW. Needless to say I was very relieved about this because it indicated that Diane had likely left the Org and the JW influence on Jack was minimal. Or, so I thought.

Recently I received an email from Diane that indicated she's still very much a JW. She said she didn't believe she would ever die. Isn't that a core JW belief, that "this system of things" will end and JWs will live on a Paradise Earth? I'm not quite sure what to make of this as I was under the impression that partying and celebrating with worldly people was enough to get one DF'd. Am I wrong? Or, is it possible to leave the Org and still maintain the faith? I'm confused. If somebody could enlighten me, I'd appreciate it.

imzadi

PS. Sorry about the runon paragraph but I can't get either the forum or html formatting to work.

Edited by - imzadi on 9 August 2002 1:25:58

RandomTask

Nah, partying and hanging out with worldly people won't get you DF'd especially if you don't go to meetings a lot, I mean who in the congregation is going to know anyway? Besides, those who aren't very active are already looked down upon.

I would say her talking about her witness hope is another example of witness guilt. I knew a lot of witnesses over the years who weren't really active, concentrated more on their jobs, making money, etc, but all they could talk about all the time was witness stuff. It gets in your head.

You see, as a witness you don't really view the organization as an organization, you equate everything with god, every utterance whether from the magazines or something an elder tells you is from God. That has a strong effect on the thought processes of the witnesses who are already in constant fear of Armageddon coming and killing them if they aren't good. SO when you have the guilt built up of the human tendency to be "normal" you tend to overcorrect by trying to be more "spiritual", its a word they use, as a way of compensation for being "worldly".

Its all a very complex mental stranglehold that these people are in, even if you were to try to talk to people who have been out for years, disfellowsipped for having sex or something will usually defend the org tooth and nail. It just shows how dangerous the Jehovah's Witness religion is and that you can't just say "its just another religion" because its not, its evil.

Thirdson

Hi Imzadi,

It is possible to leave the JW faith and still believe in much of the doctrine. My sister-in-law's brother still believed that celebrating holidays was wrong 20 years after he stopped going to JW meetings.

Sometimes the upbringing and the doctirines are very hard to break from. I know, I've been there. For some, even though they are no longer members they continue to believe in the core JW theology. If they don't reconsider their beliefs and examine others they will still hold to the teachings they received. Some even feel they will be punished by God (i.e., totally destroyed) because they knew the "truth"(tm) but don't follow it.

It might be simply a matter of time for your friend. On the other hand she may feel that despite the "wrong" she has done recently she could still return to the fold. My one brother felt that way for a long time. After he read my passed around copy of Crisis of Conscience he changed his mind.

Thirdson

willy_think

It could well be she's still very much a JW. Leading dubble life is common.
Big worldly wedding = lots of material goods.
A house worming party with worldly people = lots of material goods.
Don't overlook the obvious.

The nice thing about the setup is if/when she comes out, she will still have family and friends.

Edited by - willy_think on 9 August 2002 2:14:19

Guest 77

OK, imz, when's the next 'party'? A lot depends on the type of people in the congregation. There are a few cong.'s that are more flexible while others are rigid. When you get a dominant elder/s that want to control the cong. then the 'party' is over. If and when you decide to upset the apple cart of the GB, expect an exit.

Guest 77

Francois

I personally think that the entire JW phenomena is based on a definable sickness of the individual personality. JWs attract a certain kind of person with a very specific set of personality defects. These defects persist whether or not the person is a member or not.

-francois

ballistic

hmmmmmmm Francois, that's quite a sweeping statement. What about those bought up in it? Most of the current membership were not 'witnessed to' but are family of someone else who was, maybe even 2 or 3 generations ago.

Dia

(Random Task - thanks for a very succinct summation. Tying to capture 'the essence' of what it means to be a JW is always a challenge).

I suggest he start carefully laying some doubts to challenge her belief that the WTS and God are one and the same. There's been so much flip-flopping by the WTS, and the internet is so helpful, that won't be as hard as it once was.

A married life won't always be a bed of roses (and material gifts) and if she still believes it and has not been made to see that other people love God, too (and don't need the WTS to do so) then they could face a world of trouble when they have children.

Now is a good time to nudge her out of her core beliefs. And to invite more meaningful relationships into your life together than she will EVER find in the WTS.

Perhaps he could just buy her a computer.

Edited by - Dia on 9 August 2002 8:29:57

Dia

Fascinating Francois. I tend to agree.

I'm going to start a new thread, 'Who Are We?' Please follow me there with your comment.

NeonMadman

Imzadi:

Cool nickname. Do you have an Imzadi?

Questions from a non-JW

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