even if the "new system" never comes (page 3)

musky

garyb, None of my business, but I would find it hard to describe any witness as being lazy. I mean with going out in service and all the meetings, It would seem the lazy thing to do would be to stay home. Do you feel it's possible that when people are witnesses for many ,many years, that it becomes easy to do what is required?

Big Tex

None so blind . . . .

LDH

Gary,

Once again, you prove why you are one of my heroes. Your words ring true to so many of us!

Musky,

I believe Gary is referring to them being MENTALLY lazy, which they are.

Lisa

blacksheep

My devout JW mom has said the same thing. Which at first floored me as well. I see that POV as (obviously alarming...) but indicative of (but not limited to) several things:

1. It shuts any argument down.

2. By the same token, paradoxically, it indicates that on some level, mom recognizes it MAY all be a hopeless lie. (I call this a chink in the JW armour. On some level, they are uncertain).

3. It reflects a total brainwashing. Think about it. They are basing their whole lives on the believe that Armageddon is imminent and that they will survive and live forever in paradise. This hope is SO ingrained in them, that even if it did not happen, they would prefer to live life as though it WILL happen. ?????

The problem that psychologically healthy individuals have with #3 is that we perceive the tremendous FUTILITY of living one's entire life based on a dream that WILL NEVER HAPPEN. No attempt to really experience the richness of life, of relationships, of creating something, of enjoying present existence....all is cast aside for a pipe dream. Forget the past and present and look to the future (which we all know their vision of the future will not happen).

I've come to believe that you cannot be a JW have a reasonable degree of psychological health. I'm not saying this to be cutesy or snide, or bitter. I'm saying it because it's true when you assess JW doctrine.

blacksheep

On the issue of JW's being lazy. I think many/most of them ARE lazy on the psychological, moral, and intellectual level. It takes more courage, energy, and strength of character to make you own choices and decisions in life. To exposure youself to various ways of thinking/believing. Witnesses basically turn over all that decision making to the society. Sure, many of them are industrious, but they are following a very narrow presrcibed course of action. That requires very little energy, no creativity, and really is the EASY way. The Society TELLS them how to live. That is the epitome of laziness IMO.

SloBoy

Hi ConnieLynn,

I enjoyed meeting you at the get-together. This thread certainly is something many can relate to. Though no one in my family is a Witness( other than my wife ), I find it amazing at times to hear people respond like your mother. But someone once told me to look for the similarities and not always the differences. So on one hand, I can kinda relate to your mom. It's like what we call " hedging your bet ". When I look around at the world today I say "Gee, it COULD all come apart tomorrow". So the WBTS has capitalized on that concern of many people, has offered their version of deliverance and does what it needs to keep people in line. People, and rightly so, are betting that the system is going down. No matter what they say, they never really get this out of their mind. We are not honest enough to say, "look, I'm really afraid that if and when the world ends, I don't want to be on the losing side, whatever that may be. And these Witnesses have presented something to me, that for TODAY, looks hopeful. For TODAY, I'm willing to turn a bit of a blind eye to some pertinent facts and questionable conduct, and hang with them come hell or high water. And since I'm too afraid to let you know how really scared I am, I'm just going to say that ' even if it doesn't end, it's a good life ' ". For these people, this approach is, for TODAY, working. Though it does amaze me, I cannot judge them, for I too fell victim to this mindset. Detach with love, love from a distance, and continue with your own process. It's one of the ways I find peace through this whole thing.

Bang

"Don't try and steal my faith!" - from a man whose job it is to do the very same, with lies, and even with what they know to be lies - whatever it takes to try and do that to others.

"What better life could I have had anyway?" - Speaks volumes. He who loves this life..........

bang

The Alchemist

My mothers response when I talked to her about the "truth" was "I don't want to be disturbed in my beliefs" It is funny but she was a master at disturbing other people in their beliefs when she was the most productive pioneer in her circuit. I can only say that GB and the others are right on with their remarks, Dave

Reborn2002

"Don't try and steal my faith!" - from a man whose job it is to do the very same, with lies, and even with what they know to be lies - whatever it takes to try and do that to others.

An excellent point.

To examine the hypocrisy of a Jehovah's Witness is to explore a sea of neverending depth.

I once asked my still loyal JW mother the very same line of questioning.

Even if she KNEW the WT to be wrong, she would remain a Jehovah's Witness. Why do you ask? She stated that if they made a mistake, then it was because they were imperfect men, and Jehovah's spirit was still with them. I then proceeded to rebut that the Governing Body are Jah's direct mouthpiece on earth, and to rule as "kings and priests" with Jesus, how could God in any way, shape, or form allow them to misinterpret something to lead millions of people into disaster?

She sat there and stared at me in stunned silence.

Some people are so brainwashed, they are beyond hope.

Unfortunately, my mother is one of them.

Edited by - Reborn2002 on 14 August 2002 4:6:6

dmouse

"Don't try and steal my faith!"

I had an almost identical response from my wife on one of the few occasions she permitted me to talk to her about her religion. She said "Please don't take away my faith" To me, this shows that she was starting to see that her beliefs are based on very shaky ground and she was forced to stop me before reality overwhelmed her safe little world. The fact is, they can't handle the truth.

This 'my religion, right or wrong' attitude is typical of many JWs. After all, the one thing that the WBTS keeps plugging with their members time and time again is absolute unconditional loyalty.

Funnily enough I was at a birthday party last weekend and I was surprised to see a long standing JW friend there. We had a very long chat and I was totally floored by her response. She told me that she KNEW that many of the beliefs of the JWs were wrong and that 'the end' wasn't coming anytime soon! But she didn't care! To her, all religions are a way of approaching God and she wasn't interested in the details - she just liked the JW way in general and saw no point in moving to another religion when they too would have false beliefs. Of course, she admitted she wouldn't say this to an elder!

dmouse

even if the "new system" never comes

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