Flag Salute Deception/9/15 Watchtower

by metatron 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • metatron
    metatron

    Recently, the Watchtower has published an article on the flag
    salute issue that is misleading and deceptive ("Salvation
    Belongs to Jehovah"). I will attempt to expose why this is so.

    First, the article contains statements concerning the Hebrews
    possible use of flags (pg.21):

    "The ancient Israelites did have 'signs', or standards, around
    which their three-tribe divisions gathered while in the
    wilderness.(Numbers 2:1,2) Commenting on the Hebrew words
    denoting such standards, McClintock and Strong's Cyclopedia
    says: "Neither of them, however, expresses the idea which
    'standard' conveys to our minds, viz. a flag."

    No page number is offered, I cannot find any such statement
    in the work cited. Additionally, McClintock's Cyclopedia
    offers other favorable quotes on the Hebrews possible use
    of flags such as "Flag [subject heading] is represented
    generally in Heb. by .. de'gel, such being those borne by the
    Israelitish camp during their march through the wilderness.
    Each tribe had a banner of this description."

    Under the heading "Standard", this same work says "de'gel
    prop. the banner: while nes was prop. the staff: but the
    terms are used somewhat indiscriminately.... Most modern
    expositors seem to incline to the opinion that the ensigns
    [of the Hebrews] were flags, distinguished by their colors,
    or by the name of the tribe to which each belonged". (pg.984)
    Thus, the work they cited finds no particular fault with
    Israelite use of flags. Jewish tradition is clear from
    the Talmud that such banners were used with different colors
    and symbols.

    The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible Vol.5
    pg. 512 states "The proper root Heb. ... 'standard', 'signal'
    or 'banner' is occasionally used for 'sail' in Isaiah 33:23"

    Finally, the New International Dictionary of Old Testament
    Theology and Exegesis Vol.1 pg.919 says "In peacetime
    banners were used in the organization of large crowds. In the
    Israelite wilderness camp, upright poles with a banner
    identified the space where each of the twelve tribes was to
    rendezvous."

    Now, why would Israelites use flags instead of standards
    mounted on a pole? The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia Vol.2
    pg66 says "It is probable that in view of the prohibition
    against graven images(Ex.20:4) the early Israelites made
    use of banners as their standards."

    Thus, flags may have been used to AVOID IDOLATRY!

    Secondly, the Watchtower states "Israel's standards were
    not viewed as sacred, nor were any ceremonies associated
    with their use."
    This is false on two counts. When bitten by snakes, the
    Israelites were commanded to construct a standard of
    a copper serpent attached to a pole. They would then
    go to the standard and gaze at it and be healed. (Num.21).

    As to banners being 'sacred', please consider: The banners
    would be treated carefully - preserved for repeated use.
    An enemy's capture of such a ensign would likely be a
    tribal disgrace, such as loss of a national symbol like
    the ark of the covenant (1 Sam. 4:22). Most importantly,
    these objects were used on battlefields where men bled
    and died - and had to defend the man chosen to carry the
    tribal banner, who had his hands occupied!

    Saying that such banners were not 'sacred' is like saying
    you can dive into pool without getting wet!

    Third, unlike the Apostle Paul, who carefully appealed
    to individual consciences in matters involving the appearance
    of possible idolatry(Ro.14), the Watchtower offers blunt, dogmatic
    rules: [during the national anthem] "In such cases,
    Christians remain seated" and [marching in parades]
    "...true Christians conscientiously decline" (pg.24).
    No need to use your own conscience, they have decided
    for you.

    Lastly, what really is the flag salute? It is a ritual
    oath or affirmation of loyalty , no different from those
    found in the Bible. If putting your hand over your heart
    disturbs you, try putting it underneath the 'upper thigh'
    of a patriarch when pledging! (Gen.24:9 or Gen.47:29-31).
    Would a Witness refuse to pledge to pay taxes, obey the
    laws, or speak well of their country? Allegiance is simply
    a synonym for "loyalty". Would they refuse to be "loyal"?
    Are Jehovah's Witnesses prohibited from swearing an oath
    of citizenship or affirming loyalty in getting a passport?
    (answer according to the Watchtower, No - How would Gilead
    students leave the country?)

    Do 'worldly' people worship the state? The majority of
    Americans do not vote. Many cheat on their taxes, think
    Congress is full of crooks and call the President a
    moron. Do they seem to be worshipping the nation to you?

    Properly, idolatry depends on the attitude of the person involved.
    The Watchtower makes no distinctions between modern democracies
    and ancient kingdoms that 'sacrificed to the Emperor's genius'.

    Jesus counseled that one should "remove the rafter from your own
    eye" before finding fault with your brother - advice they would do
    well to consider in view of the sometimes idolatrous attitude they
    display towards their own 'earthly organization' and its commands that
    ignore "do not go beyond the things that are written" 1 Cor. 4:6

    metatron

  • Scorpion
  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Metatron: Good points and good work. I was always puzzled why the Society would let JWs stand for the Anthem, as long as the JWs did not place their hand over their heart ... then require that JWs sit for the flag salute ... later on they allowed standing for the falg salute, but no hand over the heart. They are truly modern day Pharisees.

  • jack2
    jack2

    I read this article and it also mentions this in the final paragraph "Christians....rely on their Bible-trained conscience in making personal decisions regarding flag salute and the singing of a national anthem".

    Yet, little or no room is left here for any "personal decisions". Several possible scenarios are given and what a Christian must decide is dictated in nearly each instance.

    I've been at sporting events with jw's and the way they do an end around the national anthem is a joke anyway. They get up and walk around several minutes before the start of the anthem, so that, as the article states "if they are already standing when the anthem is played, however, there is no need for them to take the special action of sitting down". They work this little 'loophole' very nicely.

  • nancee park
    nancee park

    Good points, Metatron. It fits nicely with some other points as seen below.

    FLAGS, WHAT THE BIBLE AND COMMON SENSE SAY: Speaking of banners, i.e. elongated flags, Psalm 20:5 says "We will cry out joyfully because of your salvation, and in the name of our God we shall lift our banners." Canticles (Song of Solomon) 2:4 says "He brought me into the house of wine, and his banner over me was love." Canticles 6:4 says "You are beautiful , O girl companion of mine, like Pleasant City, comely like Jerusalem, awesome as companies gathered around banners." And the last verse referring to flags is Canticles 6:10 which says "Who is this woman who is looking down like the dawn, beautiful like the full moon, pure like the glowing sun, awesome as companies gathered around banners?"

    That's what the Bible itself says. Obviously fanatical, unquestioning ultra-nationalism as with the Nazis is wrong, but again the Bible itself speaks of flags in no negative way at all but in the contexts of joy and love. And no matter how much someone may have told us otherwise the real truth is that most people salute flags to show "respect," not to worship them or a represented national heritage, government system or beliefs etc. Insofar as showing respect in religion, who deserves it more: a man who misspoke about flags as if idols as did J.F. Rutherford in the 1900s when reining over Jehovah's Witnesses, or both the Bible and the common sense that God put into us?

    Perhaps some in the past believed as Rutherford taught because taught the same by very loving friends or family convinced that he was correct, but when the real truth appears like this, will you put God's will first even above those whom you love but now know are misinformed? Note that Romans 14:1-6 affirms that Christians are to enjoy freedom to differ on things beyond the very simplest key and essential beliefs of the faith (Hebrews 6:1-2), with an emphasis on LOVE, and this Christian freedom applies to views about flags as well.

    Paul said that Christians are free to use individual consciences anytime something is questionable (Ro 14). A flag salute means you agree to be loyal about supporting the laws of a nation as by paying taxes, and it does not mean you would go against God by worshipping the flag or nation. The word "allegiance" means the giving of loyalty to a nation's laws, the positive ideas for which it exists as God Himself has permitted it to exist, and the saying of an oath of allegiance should not be misjudged as meaning the person saying it is in any way against God.

    The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia Vol.2 pag 66 says banners or flags instead of small statues were probably used atop poles by the different tribes of Israel "in view of the prohibition against graven images" (Ex 20:4) meaning that they were used to avoid any inclination towards idolatry, hence approved by God Himself. Any claim that "Israel's standards (the banners or flags) or the ceremonies associated with them were not viewed as sacred is false because, as explained, God Himself approved of them, and, further, note that in Numbers 21 He commanded those Israelites bitten by snakes to gaze upon a standard of a copper serpent attached to a pole in order to be healed. Common sense shows banners were preserved for repeated use, an enemy's capture of such items including during battle was doubtlessly a tribal disgrace as seen with the national symbol of the ark of the covenant. (1Sa 4:22)

    The top Watchtower Society leaders over Jehovah's Witnesses do not allow members to freely without reprisals, such as disfellowshipping (severe shunning), exercise their conscience about flag salutes, but those men write and preach that flag salutes and saying an oath of allegiance are "idolatry," even though the same guys simultaneously tell JW missionaries to go ahead and swear an oath affirming citizenship or loyalty in order to get passports to go to other countries as missionaries - hypocrisy, the blind misleading the blind.

    As said, if a person's attitude is one of respectful or of worshipful determines if flag salutes and oaths of allegiance are acceptable to the Christian conscience. Christ said "remove the rafter from your own eye" before finding fault, Paul encouraged allowing usage of the conscience, and also in such matters we are to "not go beyond the things that are written." (1 Co 4:6) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jahchristian

    Edited by - nancee park on 20 August 2002 23:17:38

  • minimus
    minimus

    Another example of double talk! A true Christian would not stand for the national anthem but it's up to your conscience.

  • Swan
    Swan

    About this statement:

    Do 'worldly' people worship the state? The majority of
    Americans do not vote. Many cheat on their taxes, think
    Congress is full of crooks and call the President a
    moron. Do they seem to be worshipping the nation to you?

    Just like some JW's do. I have heard them discuss politics, downgrade the President, say that Congress is full of crooks, and I suspect, cheat on their taxes. Yet they don't vote (yet) or salute the flag. Lots of Americans don't vote. They will salute the flag. There doesn't seem to be that much difference between JWs and other Americans in this country.

    What about other countries? Canada? UK? I would be interseted to hear about their "neutrality" in other nations.

  • heathen
    heathen

    IMO -I believe that the jw should not put these restrictions on their children who go to publlic schools.I think things would go better if the children just remained neutral not trying to convert classmates and causing disruption but I also believe that people in public schools should not try to force politics and religion on children.A child is not considered to be a minister therefore should not feel the responsibilities of the church.Children cannot vote or be drafted so therefore should not be required to display patriotism.

  • r51785
    r51785

    Do worldly people worship the state?

    No

    Do Jehovah's Witnesses worship the organization?

    Yes

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Why put so many rules and conditions on this and then say it's up to your conscience? Typical WTS thinking I suppose.

    I've been re-examining many of my long-held beliefs since I stopped going to meetings, but the issue of neutrality is one I think I'll keep. This is a tough issue for me, and I'm not certain I'm right, but I don't think I could support a war, no matter how justified it seems. I choose to believe that allegiance to my beliefs, and my God as I understand him, takes precedence over country. Just my opinion, but I just can't conceive of God caring whether a Democrat or a Repulican (Labour or Conservative?) gets elected.

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